Oil Cooler for V6 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 43 Old 04-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Oil Cooler for V6

Right guys, got some time off work in about a fortnight and want to get some jobs done on the Alfa. Before summer comes I want to fit an oil cooler kit, currently there's a 3.0 V6 trying to keep itself cool with a 2.5 water\oil heat exchanger.. Not good!

I've been looking at this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=400037060020

However, instead of having a sandwich plate for the oil filter I want a take-off plate and mount the oil filter somewhere near the oil cooler which will be on the front of the car. This is possible right? It will make oil changes a lot easier, I haven't had one done in about a year and its looking pretty black, although I have only done ~4K miles.

I know Demon Tweeks is a good place to order from, but I have absolutely no clue as to the fitting sizes and lengths of pipe I will need, thread sizes etc.

Does anyone know if the oil cooler in the 166 3.0/GTA/GTV V6 is thermostatically controlled or just always working?

Cheers,

Dan

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

Wizard Exhaust systems available here

Tel: 01768 879 171
Pud237 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Find Think Automotive's site, Mocal or whatever, they sell the cooler matrix's, hose, fittings, adaptors, take of plates and remote filter heads. I think the cooler will be thermostatically controlled, stat will be in the driveshaft carrier/filter head casting.
strat24v is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 43 Old 04-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Cheers Strat - you helped me out in my last thread when I was going to do this last summer, I did try Think Automotive but they weren't much help - I guess they aren't used to dealing with people who aren't exactly sure what they need. I know if I had part numbers they'd be able to get me everything but I still don't know what type of set-up I need.

If you go to this page:

take off plates

I need something like the lower of the two take-off plates listed under 'Type H', I'm a bit out of my depth really regarding the designing of the system but fitting won't really be a problem once I know what I need.

Forgive the crap drawing but this is essentially the system I have in my mind:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...lerdiagram.jpg

Which consists of:

Take off plate
Take-off plate -> filter housing pipe
Filter housing
Oil filter
Filter housing -> cooler pipe
Oil cooler
Cooler -> Takeoff plate pipe

I have no idea where to begin with regards to which ends are male/female, what thread sizes I need though etc

Is there any common oil cooler/remote filter kits you know of that I could buy as one piece, then just change the take-off plate to fit the Alfa block?

Any issues I should be aware of regarding oil pump, length of system, oil pressure or would just adding this system on to the engine be totally fine?
Pud237 is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

I've done this on my 156, got a take off plate, oil cooler and remote filter on my V6 - can give you details if you need
Pascs is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 43 Old 04-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Yes please mate, post 'em up, I was waiting for you to see this one
Pud237 is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Just watching the rugby and had a few beers so need to clear my head first

Here's what I have done and bought all Mocal parts from Matt Lewis Racing, quick service but not particularly helpful.

I've used 5/8" rubber hose for the complete installation and this is what I would change and use braided hoses - there is very little room between the hoses and the exhaust.

What I have done is to fit larger hose over the rubber hoses to give extra protection - I was planning to fit corrugated metal insulation or protection plate to keep the hoses safe from the exhaust heat but havent done it yet.

I bought a side take off plate instead of the normal take off plate one and one with M20x1.5 thread to replace the oil filter. I needed this due to the very very limited space in the 156 where the original oil filter is located.

I ran the hoses from the take off to under the wheel arch to the oil cooler and remote filter. I also fitted a take off plate for the oil temp and oil pressure. I used a narrow cooler to fit under the wheel arch.

Something to note is that the remote filter kit only comes with ” oil filter thread and I used a K&N Gold Oil filter – I checked its specs against a standard Alfa one and they are very similar.

I didnt use a thermostat because I'm still using the existing oil / water cooler so this would keep the oil temp at the correct level but I wanted some extra cooling if required if / when I can use the car on the track.

Parts required - if buying separately - a kit would already include some of this – I think I ordered a Remote filter kit for something like the Cosworth which has the 5/8" bsp connections. I requested a side take off plate instead of the normal one and one with M20x1.5 thread

16 row 135mm Oil Cooler – 5/8” bsp connections
5/8” 90deg pipe unions x 2

Take Off Plate M20x1.5mm (I used side take off) – 5/8” connections
Straight 5/8” pipe unions x 2

Remote filter with 3/4" thread – 5/8” connections
5/8” 90deg pipe unions x 2

5/8” hose – 3 meters

Hose clips

Oil Temp / Oil Pressure take off plate with 3/4" thread

Oil Filter – K&N Gold (HP-1002) with 3/4" unc thread

Thermostat – I didn’t fit one but would probably need 2 pipe unions too.

OK let me look for some pics

156 2.5 V6 24v, Cosmos Blue Metallic, Tan Leather, 17 GTA's, 225/45 Michelin PS2's, Full Zender body kit, GTA Headlights, Eibach springs, Koni FSD's, Eibach Anti-roll bars, Ferrari 360 Brembo calipers, DS2500 pads, Squadra ECU, 45mm Intake Runners, Carbon Intake, Dan & Wizard exhaust

156 2.5 V6 Qsystem, Red + Red Leather, Bilstein dampers, DS2500 pads...soon Brembo calipers, 17" GTV Teles
Pascs is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Couple of pics

Last edited by Pascs; 07-04-12 at 14:09.
Pascs is offline  
(Post Link) post #8 of 43 Old 04-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Cheers for that Pascs. I'm doing the same thing as you, keeping the oil/water heat exchanger, which should help to keep oil temperatures constant with the cooler always being in use. The temperature of the coolant will ensure the oil heats up fast enough. In winter, I can just replace the take-off plate with the standard oil filter to retain some of the heat, I don't do much track driving but hard road driving over prolonged periods does get the engine a bit hot..

Is that hanger part of the oil cooler, or a seperate piece?

I have been thinking about using Matt Lewis Racing, they do seem to sell quite a few on eBay. What have you done with the oil temp/pressure take off plate? Do you have gauges for these in the cab?
Pud237 is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Pascs additional cooler is a 115mm width unit, personally, i would junk the doughnut cooler because they are restrictive and cause a pressure drop, then fit a type h sideport takeof. You can order your cooler and take off with whatever thread you prefer, wether it be bsp or like mine, all SAE37 (JIC) for aero fittings. 5/8ths bore hose is fine, no smaller, bigger not necessary either. I have one of their remote thermostats, even though there is one fitted on my engine as stock. The ports to that were blanked off and aren't used. One of our guys noticed his alfa stat wasn't working correctly for some reason so that made my decision. Its all a matter of picking your takeoff and cooler then buying the thread adaptors from their catalogue. Go with the braided hose but make sure it doesn't rub on anything, its hellishly abrasive

Navara Pickup- to carry me junk.
GP4 Stratos replica, modded 3.2 gta. - in the back.
strat24v is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
Cheers for that Pascs. I'm doing the same thing as you, keeping the oil/water heat exchanger, which should help to keep oil temperatures constant with the cooler always being in use. The temperature of the coolant will ensure the oil heats up fast enough. In winter, I can just replace the take-off plate with the standard oil filter to retain some of the heat, I don't do much track driving but hard road driving over prolonged periods does get the engine a bit hot..

Is that hanger part of the oil cooler, or a seperate piece?

I have been thinking about using Matt Lewis Racing, they do seem to sell quite a few on eBay. What have you done with the oil temp/pressure take off plate? Do you have gauges for these in the cab?
I made the hanger from 2 pieces of aluminium plate. You could only fit the cooler in this position if you dont have the earlier type 156 with the AC filter dryer located under the wheel arch.

The gauge take off plate I fitted between the filter and the remote filter plate. Gauges are fitted inside where the ash tray used to be.

All this is quite a tight fit and also the power steering cooler is close by - I've fitted a shield to split the air coming from the front and try to protect the power steering from the heat of the oil cooler. Also drilled the plastic guard under the wheel arch to aid air flow.

Last edited by Pascs; 07-04-12 at 14:09.
Pascs is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Aaaah! Guage senders fitted in the take off plate on the REMOTE filter

I'd got the idea you would have the sandwich plate then the take off plate fixed on the block

If you have access to drills and taps you can get one of the other filter heads that have bosses ready for said drills and taps, that'll take the sender units.
strat24v is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Quote:
Originally Posted by strat24v View Post

I'd got the idea you would have the sandwich plate then the take off plate fixed on the block
That had been the original plan but the space is so tight around the original filter area that I just couldnt get the spanners in there to get it all tight and I just wasnt happy with it.
Pascs is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,613

Member car:

159 Ti

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Pud,

i used that oil cooler on my 2.4 jtd, with a sandwich plate - BTW - you need double depth plate for a 2.4jtd.

I kept the filter in its standard location, but used a shorter filter so it fits beween the turbo.

As siad, demon tweaks do remote filter housings.
jasons is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

The other option if you can find one is to get the GTA oil filter mounting bracket which I think also holds the drive shaft bearing. With this you could fit the GTA metal oil cooler pipes and oil cooler using all standard Alfa parts..........cost could be a bit more expensive though
Pascs is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

I have a GTA filter housing/driveshaft carrier going spare, no use for my strat, i swapped it out for a 164 item with the engine mount foot on, Could probably find a set of pipes too?
strat24v is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

IMO that would be the best way to go, the GTA pipes are better positioned and look to have a good, safe run from the engine to the front.

I'd need to check eper (im in the UK at the moment so dont have access to it) but I have it in my mind that the GTA oil cooler is same as the Qsystem auto transmission cooler - find that hard to believe but you never know
Pascs is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 43 Old 05-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

I think the GTA set-up is out of the question for me, I want a remote filter so the oil changes are easier to do. Changing the filter is such a P.I.T.A that last time I did an oil change I attempted it, couldn't get the filter off and ended up giving up and just changing the oil alone. I was pushed for time though, but I want to be able to do an oil change in half an hour like I should be able to do, not 3 hours of faffing around moving power steering pipes..

Pascs - I've got plenty of space behind the bumper, and some other jobs to do when the bumper is off, I've got the grilles for the two main vents and the two foglight holes to put on, and I would really like to bin the air con while I'm there. I'm not so bothered about the bit in the dash, but the rad and all the pipes at the front are going to come out.

Anyway, this is the up to date catalogue for Think Auto:

http://www.thinkauto.com/plist010106gweb.pdf

and this is the order I will be putting in:

Type K take off plate (side take off) M20x1.5mm with 5/8" bsp connections
Remote filter head RFH1A flow L -> R with 3/4" thread. 5/8" connections
5/8" 90 degree pipe unions x 4
5/8" straight pipe unions x 2
5/8" hose (3 metres - should be plenty)
Hose clips (jubilee) x 8 (2 for spares)

if anyone could just check it over to make sure I've not missed anything or made a mistake that'd be great. I haven't yet got the part numbers for the pipe unions, couldn't find them in the catalogue..

I think I'm just going to go for rubber pipe to be honest, and heat wrap the parts of the exhaust that are close. I need to heat wrap the exhaust on the Punto too as it is causing the sump to corrode.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 43 Old 05-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Right, looked through the catalogue front to back now and those pipe unions pictured on yours Pascs are not in there. Do you know what material they are made from? I think I may just be able to get them from a local hardware shop. I take it the rubber hoses just push over, and are secured with a jubilee clip?
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 43 Old 05-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Still undecided on the oil cooler itself - seems they don't do a 135mm, they do either a 115mm or 235mm. I'm thinking a 115mm 16 row will be sufficient, that is slightly smaller than your's Pascs, but the car will be operating in the UK rather than the Middle East!

So far I've come up with this: OC1 16 3-10 HD

OC = Oil Cooler
1 = 115mm width
16 = 16 rows tall
3 = male BSP connector
-10 = 5/8"

HD = Heavy Duty (cheaper but heavier .63kg vs .48kg)

Does that sound reasonable?
Pud237 is offline  
Alexandrus
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Does anyone know what size the stock GTA oil cooler is and what fittings does it use ? I definitely want to replace mine with a Mocal one, larger, with thermostatic activation, but I cannot decide between keeping the stock piping and filter location or replacing the whole system.
Basically, if I am to replace the entire system, it would cost more, but might end up slightly better in terms of cooling capability, filtering, flow, accessibility, but end up a bit more expensive and a lot more difficult to install, I think.
 
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

I think my cooler is 115mm and not 135mm ............typo I think

Its from this kit...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOTUS-ELISE-EX...QQcmdZViewItem

These are the pipe unions.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OIL-COOLER-REM...QQcmdZViewItem

This is the cooler I used compared to the auto transmission cooler

Last edited by Pascs; 07-04-12 at 14:09.
Pascs is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Trailbraker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland
County: -
Posts: 5,179

Member car:

156 GTA

Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Hi Alexandrus,

I believe the 147 GTA oil cooler is supposed to be larger than the 156 GTA one.

This was a mod I was looking at doing, probably a relatively inexpensive option.
I dont know the relative sizes, but the suggestion came from Jano so would be worth checking out.


Cheers,
TB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandrus View Post
Does anyone know what size the stock GTA oil cooler is and what fittings does it use ? I definitely want to replace mine with a Mocal one, larger, with thermostatic activation, but I cannot decide between keeping the stock piping and filter location or replacing the whole system.
Basically, if I am to replace the entire system, it would cost more, but might end up slightly better in terms of cooling capability, filtering, flow, accessibility, but end up a bit more expensive and a lot more difficult to install, I think.
Trailbraker is offline  
Alexandrus
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

TB, good tip. Unfortunately, according to ePER, the 147 GTA oil cooler is crazy expensive and it will require the 147 GTA pipes/hoses that lead to the cooler. Not to mention, still no thermostat, which is basically what I want, driving in the winter take FOREVER to heat up the oil. But a larger oil cooler won't hurt during the summer either. Stupid climate, 35+ Celsius all summer long, under 0 Celsius in the winter. Hard for the poor oil to keep up with the changes
The 147 GTA oil cooler is bigger, heavier and cheaper, does not use metal piping, so far so good. But the piping price and radiator price still crazy expensive, 90 Euro per pipe and 250 Euro for the radiator. Unfortunately, hard to find any totaled 147 GTA's around my parts, so back to square 1
I'll probably end up buying some big **** radiator and I will have to make room for it, but piping is still an issue, and the fact that I might need to relocate the filter and I have no idea what fitting size to use.

PS. Pascs, isn't the HP-1002 filter from K&N expesive, for an oil filter ? Also, might want to check on the bypass valve pressure, the stock filter for the GTA has bypass pressure set to 1.5 bar, the HP-1002, although identical in shape and size, has under 1bar bypass pressure, so you might end up with no oil filtering at all.

Last edited by Alexandrus; 05-04-09 at 23:16.
 
(Post Link) post #24 of 43 Old 05-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Brilliant, cheers for that Pascs. Once again, total star
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 43 Old 05-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Oil Cooler for V6

Now - the question is what oil to order. I'm thinking Silkolene Pro S 10W50 fully synthetic. As the oil temps will be slightly cooler, I'm thinking I can go for a thinner but higher quality oil than the Selenia Racing 10W60 thats in at the moment. What do you think?
Pud237 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
cooler , oil

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome