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(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 02-04-09 Thread Starter
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What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

You may have seen a thread where we discussed whether super unleaded/diesel actually gives more power than regular.

Well a different question:

When I go for a remap, should the car be full of the specific type of fuel I want to use going forward?

It seems that you can get better power and economy from super particularly if the car is remapped for super fuel. But this would suggest that if you then run an ordinary fuel, the car will probably perform worse than before on ordinary. Does this follow?

So perhaps should I fill with super and then get it mapped and stick in super? Or equally stick it full of ordinary and keep using ordinary?

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Last edited by Commanderfish; 03-04-09 at 13:59.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

What car are you thinking of getting remapped?
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

Ethanol...
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

BP Ultimate or Shell V-power work for me.

My remapped Spider fitted with CDA, straight through exhaust and Angel remap always ran soooo much better with high octane fuel.

My current 159ti runs better with high cetane derv
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Originally Posted by Alfafellow View Post
What car are you thinking of getting remapped?

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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
BP Ultimate or Shell V-power work for me.

My remapped Spider fitted with CDA, straight through exhaust and Angel remap always ran soooo much better with high octane fuel.

My current 159ti runs better with high cetane derv
Yup I have noticed since my initial remap, the car is much smoother and more powerful and seems to have better mileage on superU.

But the thing is the car had a mixed tank of unleaded and super during its re-mapping, will this have made a difference to the mapping? S

Last edited by Commanderfish; 03-04-09 at 09:23.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

i was wondering, would an un-mapped car run ok on super unleaded (97/98/99 RON) rather than standard 95?

with regard to mapping, if you use 95 and have the car mapped for 95, you will get "x" increase. if you use, say, 98 and get the car mapped for 98, you will also get "x" increase.

whether or not you get, say, "x+5%" increase or anything else may depend, best to ring a tuner and ask them.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

It all depends if your going for a generic or a custom map ... if you're going generic then it won't make any difference what fuel you put in ... if you're going custom then put in the fuel you fill the car up with, if you have a custom map done with "super" fuel and then you fill it with normal it might not run as well ... (they'll be able to customise the map for the different grades ...)
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Originally Posted by 156Chris View Post
... if you're going custom then put in the fuel you fill the car up with, if you have a custom map done with "super" fuel and then you fill it with normal it might not run as well ... (they'll be able to customise the map for the different grades ...)
That's exactly what has happened to me. I had a mixture of approx 50:50 unleaded : super in the tank when it was custom mapped, and with super in it it runs fantastically well with oodles of power and torque, but with ordinary in, it has markedly less power and is a bit lumpy actually. Throttle response may be down too.

Guess I better fill it with super before the next map
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

With super you can get away with advancing the spark slightly more without risk of pre-detonation. Hence you burn more of the fuel where it is more thermodynamically efficient to do so, around TDC, and extract more work from the power stroke. Therefore a custom map for 99 RON V-Power or whatever will be able to liberate a few more bhp as well as a bit more economy on part load. If I were getting a map there is no way I would use anything other than super.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
When I go for a remap, should the car be full of the specific type of fuel I want to use going forward?
I'd go for petrol, diesel might break it
 
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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I'd go for petrol, diesel might break it
I'd stick to the black stuff if I was you mister





But seriously, the car is now totally different on super compared to unleaded, I think it has to be super all the way now. Once induction is done I will make sure there is only super in the tank and get the map tweaked again.

Can't believe I had a 50:50 mix in the car at the time of last remap, and worse, no one ever mentioned fuel type in all the visits to tuners I have had!
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

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Originally Posted by bigmacnchips View Post
With super you can get away with advancing the spark slightly more without risk of pre-detonation. Hence you burn more of the fuel where it is more thermodynamically efficient to do so, around TDC, and extract more work from the power stroke. Therefore a custom map for 99 RON V-Power or whatever will be able to liberate a few more bhp as well as a bit more economy on part load. If I were getting a map there is no way I would use anything other than super.
Hit the nail right on the head?

Tuned cars inveriably have timing advanced for a quicker pickup, using poor fuel the engine will "knock" when pushed hard and at this point the the ignition is automatically retarded to prevent engine damage giving the feeling of loss of power.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
When I go for a remap, should the car be full of the specific type of fuel I want to use going forward?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
It seems that you can get better power and economy from super particularly if the car is remapped for super fuel. But this would suggest that if you then run an ordinary fuel, the car will probably perform worse than before on ordinary. Does this follow?
Thats because super unleaded is less volatile, and will not pre-ignite all by itself. Which means you can advance the spark and burn it where it is more efficient to burn it. But if you have the car mapped for super and run ordinary fuel it will knock and pink, which will activate the knock sensor and automatically retard the timing - undoing the advancement of the remap and probably some more just to be on the safe side of things - this will make it inefficient and less powerful. However, you could probably get away with driving it at low loads and light throttle applications with ordinary fuel even with a map for 99, but I wouldn't bother as you couldn't SAFELY put your foot down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
So perhaps should I fill with super and then get it mapped and stick in super? Or equally stick it full of ordinary and keep using ordinary?
I'd stick with the super, get the most out of it you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
Yup I have noticed since my initial remap, the car is much smoother and more powerful and seems to have better mileage on superU.

But the thing is the car had a mixed tank of unleaded and super during its re-mapping, will this have made a difference to the mapping? S
Depends on how much they advanced the timing when they remapped it. They probably just advanced it a tiny bit, maybe took it close to the limit of what 95 octane fuel will accept before it pre-ignites. You can go a whole lot further than that but it'd probably involve a good few hours on the dyno, being live mapped with lots of different throttle applications to get it bang on. Plenty of tuners just like to whack on a generic remap, rolling road it, tweek it if necessary and then pass go collect $200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aziraphale View Post
i was wondering, would an un-mapped car run ok on super unleaded (97/98/99 RON) rather than standard 95?

with regard to mapping, if you use 95 and have the car mapped for 95, you will get "x" increase. if you use, say, 98 and get the car mapped for 98, you will also get "x" increase.

whether or not you get, say, "x+5%" increase or anything else may depend, best to ring a tuner and ask them.
A car mapped for 95 (whether standard map or a remap) will run fine on 99 octane. However, the calorific value for the fuels is the same so technically if the car mapped for 95 is running on 95 fuel using maximum igniton advance that the standard ECU allows, you will see no benefit from 99 octane. However, many super unleaded fuels also have cleaning agents in them, so you may see some benefit due to the cleaning effect on the injectors and fuel system, giving a better spray pattern and therefore better air fuel mix. And you may just imagine the car feels better, sometimes my car feels great and sometimes it feels terrible but I'm sure 90% of it is all in my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmacnchips View Post
With super you can get away with advancing the spark slightly more without risk of pre-detonation. Hence you burn more of the fuel where it is more thermodynamically efficient to do so, around TDC, and extract more work from the power stroke. Therefore a custom map for 99 RON V-Power or whatever will be able to liberate a few more bhp as well as a bit more economy on part load. If I were getting a map there is no way I would use anything other than super.

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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

One other thing to consider - if you whip the cats out and have a much freer-flowing exhaust system, this will flow the heat out of the engine much better and allow you to use even more ignition advance, meaning more power again

This is why once I get the GTA cams fitted to mine, I will be taking it to a tuner to have the Dastek Unichip remapped again because it now has a decat pipe and should be able to run more ignition advance. I think I'll be using Tesco 99 from then on but currently Sainsbury's 97 does the job and is a bit cheaper - it doesn't run good on 95 at all but I notice no difference from 97 to 99.
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

Very interesting Pud and good posts

Super for me from now on, and perhaps a little more ignition advance come remap tweak - they will probably have to adjust the fuel:air mix anyway once the induction is on
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Re: What fuel should I be using when I go for a remap?

I would have thought the ECU could cope with the induction kit and keep the AFRs bang on without the need for tweaking. After all, Chris155 stuck a 3.2 engine in a 2.5 and the standard ECU got the AFRs right!
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