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(Post Link) post #1 of 29 Old 06-03-09 Thread Starter
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Engine additives

Hi

Just bought an Alfa 156 (1.8 TS) - its my second Alfa as i was pleased with the first.
T
his is something I always do when I buy a new car with over 50,000 on the clock.
Bang a decent petrol injector cleaner . fuel system additivethrough it.
Get it serviced and put an engine additive. friction reducer in it.

Any advice on what the best ones are at the moment ??

and any advice on using them with this car ?
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Re: Engine additives

I wouldn't put any oil system additives in. Good quality oil is pretty slippery stuff to start with - if you can get 100K miles from an an engine without any wear then there can't be much friction! I'd be concerned about any additives reacting with the existing additives packages in the oil, as well as clogging filters / passageways...
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Re: Engine additives

Injector cleaner might help if it is running badly, but I agree with Mave on the oil additives.

I wouldn't add anything to the oil, the oil companies spend a fortune developing their products to be as good as possible. You don't want to mess it up by adding any aftermarket additives.
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Re: Engine additives

I ve put oil additives my cars every time I ve changed the oil over the last 10 years. Never had a problem. I used a Wynns one last time. The additives are also developed by oil companies and they make sure theyre compatable with all the additives that are put in modern oils. The only one I ve heard that causes probs is teflon, for some reason

Mave-Unless you were to strip an engine and check each component for wear ,you cant say you "can get 100k miles without wear", thats just plain silly. A good modern oil will drastically reduce it and an additional additive will reduce it further, but you cant totally eliminate it.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 29 Old 07-03-09 Thread Starter
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Well Happy Re: Engine additives

cheers fellas.

just wondered if anyone had used any petrol injector cleaners or fuel system cleaners themselves also.

I have in the past used one by the company that makes slick 50 and also one by a company called ;grease lightning; from america - they were about a tenner - im pretty sure both had a possitive effect after i put them in and took the car for a good hard drive in my last 4 or 5 motors.

Anyone who has used any makes, info would be welcome.

Also does runnign a 1.8 TS on normal unleaded or the super unleaded make any difference ?

I also once put a molyslip gearbox additive that came i na tube and that deffinatley made the car i had at the time quieter on the motor way and when changing gears.

.

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Year 2000
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Re: Engine additives

Motor Silk / Boron seems to work, lots of info available...
https://evergreenamerica.com/index.cfm

http://www.altboron.com/general.html
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Re: Engine additives

Glad someone else asked this too. I put molyslip in my 156 recently and the results were good. Someone on here (Squadrone Rosso?) also reckoned that ZX1 was a great additive. I may try that . . .
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Re: Engine additives

I swear by ZX1 engine additive and the benefits, in particular better mpg, smoother and quicker running / revving are quickly realised. Every now and again I chuck some Forte fuel system in the tank too. Keeps everything nice & clean inside
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Re: Engine additives

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Originally Posted by typos1 View Post
Mave-Unless you were to strip an engine and check each component for wear ,you cant say you "can get 100k miles without wear", thats just plain silly. A good modern oil will drastically reduce it and an additional additive will reduce it further, but you cant totally eliminate it.
You can get 100K miles easily without any friction wear related problems (my 145 QV is now close to 150K miles, my Xantia is on 110K, and my Saab is on 170K) using decent oil.

I don't see that friction is the problem; if you've got the right film thickness then you don't have metal to metal contact, the problem is insufficient film thickness or dirt, neither of which is affected by friction reducing additives.
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Re: Engine additives

Every different oil has a different package of base stock and additives.

You can't tell me that an additive will be perfect for all of them.

I agree stuff like Molyslip is good for gearboxes, but I wouldn't put anything in the engine oil.

Instead buy a decent oil and change it more often than the manufacturer recommends, and the engine will happily run and run.

Things like PTFE reduce engine clearances, and can clog up oilways, which you certainly don't want. They may also void the warranty of your car.
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Re: Engine additives

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Originally Posted by symonh2000 View Post
Every different oil has a different package of base stock and additives.

You can't tell me that an additive will be perfect for all of them.

I agree stuff like Molyslip is good for gearboxes, but I wouldn't put anything in the engine oil.

Instead buy a decent oil and change it more often than the manufacturer recommends, and the engine will happily run and run.

Things like PTFE reduce engine clearances, and can clog up oilways, which you certainly don't want. They may also void the warranty of your car.
Did a bit of research on t'internet re additives and I'd avoid anything containing PTFE like the plague! The additives contain suspended particles of PTFE, these can then block filters etc. Dupont (Teflon TM) have even distanced themselves from the manufacturers' claims that the PTFE works within the engine! Says it all.

Here's a link
Is That Additive Really A Negative?
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Re: Engine additives

Quote:
Originally Posted by mave View Post
You can get 100K miles easily without any friction wear related problems (my 145 QV is now close to 150K miles, my Xantia is on 110K, and my Saab is on 170K) using decent oil.

I don't see that friction is the problem; if you've got the right film thickness then you don't have metal to metal contact, the problem is insufficient film thickness or dirt, neither of which is affected by friction reducing additives.
No one has said they have had friction or wear problems, its just about whether there are benefits to putting an additives in the oil. Friction is inevitable according to the laws of physics, oil reduces the problem, additives attempt to reduce it further.
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Re: Engine additives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso View Post
I swear by ZX1 engine additive and the benefits, in particular better mpg, smoother and quicker running / revving are quickly realised. Every now and again I chuck some Forte fuel system in the tank too. Keeps everything nice & clean inside
Question is, how are you measuring the results? MPG varies so much in day to day driving that any possible improvements you'd get from reducing oil friction would get lost in the noise.

Low friction engine oil can improve fuel consumption (manufacturers sometime use it as a factory fill on their Eco models), but I have doubts about the effectiveness of many of the oil additives on the market.

Injector cleaners can sometimes help, but then again so can running the car on a petrol with a good active detergent in it (such as Vpower).
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(Post Link) post #14 of 29 Old 08-03-09 Thread Starter
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Well Happy Re: Engine additives

cheers.

There is something to say for both arguments I can see.

I do know a bloke who worked in a main dealer garage abut 10 years ago used to put that 'forte' injector or diesel cleaner through any cars they had in that were running lumpy or had flat spots that they couldnt quite identify (im sure everyone knows that feeling) and he reconed if they put it in the tank the night before, ran it for 10 mins, left it in over night to do whatever it did then take it for a hard drive the nexrt day it solved 50% of cases.
So I'll give the petrol cleaner a go - cant do any harm I dont think.

I'll also give the gerbox stuff a go, Molyslip or the ZX1 one mentioned above. think they are pretty easy to administer, have done it on previous fiat cars (if anyone has any info on doing it on a 156 a link would be dandy).

As for the engine I will get it serviced with good oil and see how it goes. Will deff not use any ptfe products after the helpful advice on here.

I did notice my last 156 went well on shell petrol, better than a few supermarket places or the little asian run garage near here that sells a brand of petrol Ive never heard of for sure.
It also went smoother when i did the battery off for 45mins thing and ECU + throttle reset. (got the info from this site)

cheers - any more help advice or info on any of the above still welcome.

Ciao

Last edited by AndyJH; 08-03-09 at 09:00.
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Re: Engine additives

Tried STP, Wynn's Friction Proofing, Slick 50, and way back, Molyslip, and loads of others. Now just settle for Oh! so frequent oil and filter changes, and I do mean frequent, when we are mobile that is.: See how you find your particular flavour works?

I was always impressed with the Wynn's Mans Demo, with the bearing loading, after good oil, then sand, then petroleum spirit, which was set fire to in the sump of the Demo machine! Holy Smokin' Joe, how that bearing did go! On, and on, and on. Remember, old timers??

Last edited by zulu ferret; 08-03-09 at 09:22.
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Re: Engine additives

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Originally Posted by typos1 View Post
No one has said they have had friction or wear problems, its just about whether there are benefits to putting an additives in the oil. Friction is inevitable according to the laws of physics, oil reduces the problem, additives attempt to reduce it further.
I was responding to your comment that "A good modern oil will drastically reduce it (wear) and an additional additive will reduce it further.." My point was that it's not friction which causes wear in the first place, so friction reducing additives won't make any difference
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Re: Engine additives

If you put anything in your gearbox, make sure it's 100% compatible with the material on your synchro rings (don't forget, synchros need friction to work!)
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Re: Engine additives

Using a thinner oil such as a 5w-40 instead of say a 10w-60 will reduce drag.

However it might increase oil consumption.

A good Shear stable 5w-40 is more than good enough for a road car in the UK climate in terms of engine protection, even if driven hard.
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Re: Engine additives

Yes what mave said, the conical designed micro grooved baulk rings/synchro cones, need to have a squeezing effect on the lubricant. However one old UNO, 100 K plus worked better with slick 50 in the box, I kid you not.:
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Re: Engine additives

Just do those frequent oil and filter changes with decent oil, as Symon and I do.:
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Re: Engine additives

I fancy giving ZX1 a go. Am now on 0-50 fully synthetic oil though, so dunno if there would be muchg difference . . . . .Again Any thoughts??
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Re: Engine additives

No further ones.:
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Re: Engine additives

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Originally Posted by uncinqsix View Post
Question is, how are you measuring the results? MPG varies so much in day to day driving that any possible improvements you'd get from reducing oil friction would get lost in the noise.
My wife does constant trips in her car and where she used to get c28mpg she now gets c31mpg out of a 3.2V6 GT.

The results were that obvious and have been so in each car I've owned for the last 10 years or so.

It's not PTFE or anything - in impregnates the metal. Car starts easier from ice cold too and it revs more freely and feels generally more frisky
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Re: Engine additives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso View Post
My wife does constant trips in her car and where she used to get c28mpg she now gets c31mpg out of a 3.2V6 GT.

The results were that obvious and have been so in each car I've owned for the last 10 years or so.

It's not PTFE or anything - in impregnates the metal. Car starts easier from ice cold too and it revs more freely and feels generally more frisky
I'll remain skeptical - a 10% improvement in fuel economy from a product like this just isn't credible. Maybe 1-2% at best. 3 mpg is well within normal variations in road driving - even driving the same route.

From what I can find out, it looks like ZX1 is a ZDDP formulation. Nothing wrong with that: ZDDP is known to be effective - which is why engine oil manufacturers have already been using it for years. I'm not convinced that simply adding more of the stuff will have a dramatic effect.

There is a really good discussion on fuel additives and other fuel saving "gadgets" here: Fuel saving - a professional engineer's view
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Re: Engine additives

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Originally Posted by AndyJH View Post
Hi

Just bought an Alfa 156 (1.8 TS) - its my second Alfa as i was pleased with the first.
T
his is something I always do when I buy a new car with over 50,000 on the clock.
Bang a decent petrol injector cleaner . fuel system additivethrough it.
Get it serviced and put an engine additive. friction reducer in it.

Any advice on what the best ones are at the moment ??

and any advice on using them with this car ?
Many "assumptions" in the answers you got ... first of all 80% of the wear and tear takes place when you start your engine, during the first few seconds needed to feed the lubrication system perfectly.

First thing i would advise you is to get a compression test of your engine then see from there.

You will have the choice then to minimize the wear and tear with an anti-friction. It is true there are already anti-frictions in all engine oil but still you can wisely increase their effect with a few reliable products.

The first type of product i would recommend you is a lubrication system cleaner or oil flusher. Despite what it said above the lubrication system is essential, including in terms of pollution issues. Engine oils are the first product where quality matters, choose the right grade. But then why spending your money into a good oil to use it in a dirty engine.

Avoid the solvents breaking the oil coating while in use (flammable package mention), and also the hard chemicals damaging gaskets and O-rings. Dangerous products cover themselves with the mention "run at minimum idle". Non dangerous products allow you to drive with it and eventually to forget. Safe products do NOT modify lubricant viscosity ...

Injection cleaners are a second alternative ... but will not impact in terms of wear and tear. The main issue about all these products is the side effects ... which might leads to engine seizing sometimes or injectors failure.

My advice ... be carefull, nothing cheap is good and nothing good is cheap ... Avoid products without back ground and if they have one ... make sure they are still for sales in their markets of origin ... and avoid the TV shopping magic, they might sell well but will gone by the time you might face problems !

Cheers


Last edited by rosso155m; 09-03-09 at 04:05.
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