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Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

take a look at this...

ForceFlowX4

now normally i would look at something like this and think "gobsh1te", but this one has a demo video showing comparisons between this and the other ebay-found electric superchargers..

the video shows evidence of current draw, and air/wind power on exiting the unit....

could this work, or is it still not enough to be of any use? would the 60amp current draw kill a sele?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

what was his amp meter set to in units, is the '00065' 6.5amps, or 65amps, surely 65amps would need some whopping great power cable similar to what connects to the alternator?

Just BTW, my Jag has a supercharger (factory fit) and it requires 80bhp, yes 80bhp to spin it up fully, and it only provides 7psi throughout the rev range.

I doubt these little electric things could supply 1 or 2 psi at maximum revs - when the engine requires huge amounts of air?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

im not right sure, but with the other ones tested, if it was 4.5 amps....would it even turn?

according to their website, it flows 1000CFM. would that be enough to be of benefit to a car?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

if the engine needs a 1000cfm at 3000rpm (as an example) then this unit would no longer provide boost and beyond 3000rpm could be a hinderance?

I don't know where you would find alfa cfm measuremants, but if you google cfm for a V8 Jag, you will find results. (they test cfm on idle to check for nikasil block issues on the V8)
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by jasons View Post
if the engine needs a 1000cfm at 3000rpm (as an example) then this unit would no longer provide boost and beyond 3000rpm could be a hinderance?

I don't know where you would find alfa cfm measuremants, but if you google cfm for a V8 Jag, you will find results. (they test cfm on idle to check for nikasil block issues on the V8)
when your car is hooked up to diagnostics you get the airflow reading from from the MAF , cant remember what the figure was when my twinny was in for a new MAF but remember it is a figure in the low hundreds.
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

No sign of any dyno readings though, 20 will get you a similar unpowered fan unit on Ebay, it is supposed to increase torque/power by introducing turbulence into the airstream between the filter and manifold, in principle this should work, I fitted a device with a similar operating principle to my 1990 Harley and found a significant difference before and after. BUT Harley intake tracts are notoriously bad as the airflow has to be turned through 90 degrees and the tract is very short. IF the unpowered version did improve the power measurably then the powered version might do the same but slightly better, then again the supercharging claim might be Bull. There's only one real way to find out, test both systems on the same car on the same dyno and compare the results. I suspect that the description as a supercharger might attract attention from trading standards in the UK, a true supercharger runs off the crankshaft at a constant ratio of shaft to charger speed, and is a compressor not just a fan, this unit appears to run at constant speed so the faster you rev the less effect it would have. I imagine that here it would have to be decribed as an electric turbocharger.
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

I am sceptical about this
 
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by rodz1300 View Post
when your car is hooked up to diagnostics you get the airflow reading from from the MAF , cant remember what the figure was when my twinny was in for a new MAF but remember it is a figure in the low hundreds.
The easiest way to work it out is like this..

A 2 litre engine needs an average of 1 litre of air for every full revolution (as its a four stroke)

So at 3000rpm it will need 1500 cubic litres of air per minute. (not sure what is in cubic feet though but a cubic foot is larger)

If any less than that is supplied then it is becomes a restriction.
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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The easiest way to work it out is like this..

A 2 litre engine needs an average of 1 litre of air for every full revolution (as its a four stroke)

So at 3000rpm it will need 1500 cubic litres of air per minute. (not sure what is in cubic feet though but a cubic foot is larger)

If any less than that is supplied then it is becomes a restriction.
I did the sums via another route and got about 200 CFM - (which is about twice the 1500, I think you divided by 2 twice ) so the device should have enough flow. I think the important question is how much pressure it can deliver that flow at.....
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

so the only noticable increase it gives is idle to 1500rpm, beyond this its negligable rather than noticable?

A twinny need 3500-400rpm to come on cam?

you've also got engine load (generating electricity to run the thing) verses power gain, in the same way my jag wastes 80bhp turning the the thing at 5500rpm, versus the extra 70bhp over over normally aspirated it provides in bhp?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by Pcutter1 View Post
I suspect that the description as a supercharger might attract attention from trading standards in the UK, a true supercharger runs off the crankshaft at a constant ratio of shaft to charger speed, and is a compressor not just a fan, this unit appears to run at constant speed so the faster you rev the less effect it would have. I imagine that here it would have to be decribed as an electric turbocharger.
I don't think the name "supercharger" would upset trading standards - there's nothing about that title that says it has to be driven by the crank.

It's actually further away from being an electric driven turbocharger - here there is a specific definition, the turbo bit referring to the turbine taking energy from the exhaust gas to drive the supercharger...

What's your definition of fan versus compressor? If it raises the pressure of the intake air, then it's a compressor in my book, and if it is capable of increasing the flow into an engine, then it must be compressing it...
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

not sure how relevent this is but years ago i was working on board a ship that had a turbocharger failure. The engine was a medium speed 2 stroke running on Marine diesel. when a turbo failed on 4 stroke engines it was possible to limp to port by taking off the inlet manifold and running the engine normally aspirated at very low load so as not to get too high exhaust temps and damage the heads.

The 2 stroke was different and would not run normally aspirated so the ship had a purpose built elecrically driven emergency compressor/fan arrangement that was connected up by a 12" flexi pipe to the intercooler inlet that was normally fed from the turbo.

being a ship and having 3 dedicated generators there was plenty of electrical power and the compressor/fan contraption was huge and drew a huge amount of power requiring an extra generators to be running in order to power it.

I am now getting to the point of this. when it was all connected up and running it was pressurising the inlet manifold to around 0.9 bar (approx 12.5psi) but when the ships main engine was running the scavange air pressure dropped to around 2 psi around 20% of what the turbo supplied at full load and as this fan was running at a constant output the supercharging effect was only enough to run the engine at very low load so as not to do damage through high cylinger head temps. this contraption was basically a very large version of the electric supercharger in the link and despite its size and power consumption it was crap.

while an electric fan can certainly supply quite a volume of air you need a turbine to supply a large volume of air under pressure . hold your hand over the end of a hairdryer and you can stop the flow without feeling any real pressure at all. i suspect it would be the same for this " electric supercharger"
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by mave View Post
I did the sums via another route and got about 200 CFM - (which is about twice the 1500, I think you divided by 2 twice ) so the device should have enough flow. I think the important question is how much pressure it can deliver that flow at.....
Yes you are right Mave. It will suck in 1 litre on average every revolution, so at 3000 rpm it needs 3000 litres. (providing it is a 2 litre engine)


It's been a long day.
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by rodz1300 View Post
while an electric fan can certainly supply quite a volume of air you need a turbine to supply a large volume of air under pressure . hold your hand over the end of a hairdryer and you can stop the flow without feeling any real pressure at all. i suspect it would be the same for this " electric supercharger"
I know what you're saying, in your case the fan wasn't big enough; at low revs the engine was acting as a restrictor and providing a back pressure, and then as the revs went up the restriction went down and the pressure went down.... I actually think that 2 psi is quite respectable for a lash up (better than N/A!). I think the key difference between what we are calling a fan and a compressor is how well the flow holds up when the back pressure goes up. A lot of these electric superchargers talk about flow and pressure, but never at the same time... The turbine bit is just one potential way to drive the compressor / fan, the others being electric motor, crank driven, belt driven etc. IMHO incidentally, if it's not drawing a few hundred amps (at 12v) then it's not powerful enough....
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Yes you are right Mave. It will suck in 1 litre on average every revolution, so at 3000 rpm it needs 3000 litres. (providing it is a 2 litre engine)


It's been a long day.
must be why you compared my 156's spoiler to a pug 405's inna other thread
 
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Yes you are right Mave. It will suck in 1 litre on average every revolution, so at 3000 rpm it needs 3000 litres. (providing it is a 2 litre engine)


It's been a long day.
Don't know about you mate, it's been a long bl**dy week; roll on the weekend
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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must be why you compared my 156's spoiler to a pug 405's inna other thread
Are you saying rude things about Peugeots?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Are you saying rude things about Peugeots?
I could - I drove a 90BHP 406 co. car for a while that brought tears to my eyes every time I drove it

BUT would hate to hijack the thread with my 'witterings'

Anyhoo, hasn't there been proof submitted that these things don't work - i.e. (not V tech ) - the current drawn by the 'supacharga' defeats the object as the engine cannot produce the 'excess' power
 
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

wow, lot of discussion!

you know, looking around, it might just work..it wouldnt increase idle, as it can be set to activate at a certain throttle percentage.

if you look at these two links, the Procharger C-1 and C-2 only flow a max of 1000 and 1100CFM respectively, and the application list shows BMW M3's and Mazda RX-8s in the list....

Procharger Specs

Gallery/Applications
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by V6Jon View Post
Anyhoo, hasn't there been proof submitted that these things don't work - i.e. (not V tech ) - the current drawn by the 'supacharga' defeats the object as the engine cannot produce the 'excess' power
If the compressor is big and efficient enough, I don't see why it shouldn't work; it's no different to a mechanical supecharger in basic principal, just using alternator / cables / motor instead of drive belt. But then you have to ask your self how can compressor + motor + cabling be so much cheaper than compressor + belt....
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

Wouldnt put anything like this on my car!

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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Wouldnt put anything like this on my car!

but the real question is are you bringing your car to wales in April Jim ?
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

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Originally Posted by aziraphale View Post
wow, lot of discussion!

you know, looking around, it might just work..it wouldnt increase idle, as it can be set to activate at a certain throttle percentage.

if you look at these two links, the Procharger C-1 and C-2 only flow a max of 1000 and 1100CFM respectively, and the application list shows BMW M3's and Mazda RX-8s in the list....

Procharger Specs

Gallery/Applications
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(Post Link) post #24 of 65 Old 28-02-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

hah, with my car that may be a recipe for disaster without knowing first.
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Re: Electric Supercharger That Might Actually Work?!

60 amps at 12 volts = 720 Watts....less than ONE HORSEPOWER

Yeh cannae change the laws of physics as Scotty would say.

If this could work in a road vehicle, dont you think manufacturers would substitute these over all the complex plumbing (turbo) and belts (superC) with just 2 wires - and no oil feed? Of course they would, but the fact is even the air conditioning compressor wont work on a vehicle electrical system let alone an induction compressor.

As one dude said - the Jag takes 80 times more power through the belt for its supercharger on the V8R

...but with the growing hybrid tech, AC inverters and higher voltage batteries, it will come, but at 12 volts, its a chocolate teapot, you would get similar results just advancing the ignition map, this thing is never going to increase the air mass enough to allow a significant increase in fueling.

Unless you want the thing to be the size of bucket with an alternator the size of a dustbin!


The ships engineer is correct in his statement, these things exist, but even with 400Volts 3 phase AC, they draw mega current to replace a modest ( I would assume Holset or Allison) turbo on a Wartsila NSD or MAN marine diesel.
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