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(Post Link) post #1 of 80 Old 27-01-09 Thread Starter
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Hmmm Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Hi all,

Hoping people can give me some advice on the type of re-map I should get.

I've been looking at 2 places in particular: AHMotorsport and RSTuning

The reason I'm asking for some advice is I'm not sure which is the best to go for (in terms of both price and longevity of the engine).

I've e-mailed Adie at AHMotorsport who's been very helpful - he explained that the re-map they perform is using a map generated from the first time they re-map a particlar model, eg the first time they get the 150BHP 1.9 JTD they spend time creating the map and then use it for every same version after that, tweaking it slightly if requested. Adie has quoted me 295 + VAT.

The other company I've been looking at is called RSTuning and come recommended. They carry out a custom map everytime they perform a re-map using a rolling road. I have been quoted 395 + VAT for this from Paul at RSTuning.

I'm asking because I have been told that despite models being the same, every engine is somewhat slightly different and therefore the custom map would be better so as not to effect the longevity of the car/engine.

Is this true, or would I be just as good with AHMotorsport as the map is for that particular model so is just as good.

Also what do people think regarding upgrading the clutch at the same time as a re-map? Is it necessary with the extra strain?

Also has anyone had any experience with the two mentioned above? All help greatly appreciated - I'm just trying to do as much homework as possible before getting it done.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

heard good noises about AH. they have a rolling road too don't they?

But why not go to the alfa day at Red Dot on sat 8th Feb, look here > https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/south...for-alfas.html
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Yep AHM do have a rolling road ... I got my remap there and it is awesome!!! I got a 50 bhp gain!!! and about an extra 100 torques ... Adie does his own maps, so I'm sure he could do a custom map for you, although tbh you get such a massive gain from a diesel remap that you're not going to notice the extra couple of bhp that a custom might give you ... I think it would only really be worth doing a custom map if you've got lots of non-standard equipment on board (induction kit etc) ...


Red dot are cheaper, but tbh you get what you pay for ... AHM have years and years of race experience (and the stuff he produces usually wins!!!)

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(Post Link) post #4 of 80 Old 27-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Yeah I know he (Adie) knows his stuff. It was more that I was under the impression that each engine was slightly different and that by using a map created previously on a same model from before, might have the possibilty of damaging the engine/drivetrain because of those slight differences?

I agree with you though, you get what you pay for

@ Jasons thanks for lettin me know bout the Alfa day but will prob give it a miss, lookin to get some other bits at the same time (Q2 and uprated clutch).

As a point though did either of you have to uprate the clutch after the re-map? Is it somethin you'd recommend?
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Most custom maps will be based on a generic map anyway, but modified to suit an individual engine and desired power output.

So basically both achieve the same thing.

I would carry on with the existing clutch. If it slips then it was on its way out anyway and it needs changing. If not, all is good.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

I do a custom remap for each Alfa JTD according to the state of the car and customer needs.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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Originally Posted by kgb View Post
I do a custom remap for each Alfa JTD according to the state of the car and customer needs.
So do i,for every Alfa,not just JTD,but unfortunately a lot of people tend to go for cheap and chearful,but hey ,you get what you pay for.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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Originally Posted by L33KON View Post
AHMotorsport ... has quoted me 295 + VAT.

RSTuning quoted 395 + VAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by 156Chris View Post
you get what you pay for
You saying RS will be better????
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

If any of you have seen adies car and how it goes
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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You saying RS will be better????
I can'd speak for 156chris jasons but what i would like to say is that people that charge 150.00 or 180.00 for remaps on modern cars aren't doing a proper job,for various self explanatory reasons.
For one,the reason that we need to charge more money is because we have invested tens of thousands of pounds in hardware and software and have to carry on investing every month because the manufacturers change ecu's for modern cars so often nowdays.
If there is enough interest by users of this forum and the Admin agree,i am prepared to do a short write up explaining the basics of remapping so that everybody understands a bit more about it.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

I can help you with that if time permits...
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

[QUOTE=ALFA TUNER;2357044]I can'd speak for 156chris jasons but what i would like to say is that people that charge 150.00 or 180.00 for remaps on modern cars aren't doing a proper job,QUOTE]

I was taking the michael above!

AHM are the cheaper option above, but no one can fault them for the amazing job they have done on chris's car.

Any info would be great, go for it.
All I have is a vague idea that was explianed to me by a guy who worked for Jaguar on the ECU mapping side.
He mentioned hi and low level maps/parameters in the map.

BTW, Jaguar send cars now and again to tuners/mappers and then look at what they do/have done when they come back.
I won't mention all of what he said, but it was interesting, and from a guy who understood/was able to work on all most any part of the ecu map. (it was amazing how much Bosch charge for the papers for this!!!wow!)
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(Post Link) post #13 of 80 Old 28-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Jasons - that comment was nothin to do with AHM and Adie. From what I can see and hear he's very good at what he does. It was a comment relating to something else..

At the end of the day the prices are not the cheap end of the market, and not too far apart to make that much difference really - Just wanted to get all the info down and get some feedback on the best one to go for..

As for the detailled explanation on re-maps, I'd greatly appreciate it ! I'm sure there's many more who would as well.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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You saying RS will be better????

hmmm kinda shot myself in the foot there (my post was a bit contradictorary ) ... however ALFA_TUNER summed it up nicely
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Go for Custom. Got mine booked for the 25th Feb with Angel Tuning
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

I had a generic one from Angel and they came back and tweaked it for free after a couple of turbo issues. Can't fault the guys for aftersales service at all. Rolling road figures aren't important to me and I'm not interested in driving the width of the country for a rolling road printout and an extra horsepower or 2 more.

Depends on what you want from the car, I've had mine mapped for almost a year now and after the initial adjustment, I've had no problems at all. Clutch has been slipping, I've been budgeting to get it done for 6 moths now but it keeps on going. If anything the clutch slip has improved over the last 2 weeks (for how long I don't know!)

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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Anybody used Paramount Performance and have any views on their expertise. Thinking of using them as they are fairly local to me.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

You don't really need to worry about slight differences between the different engines before getting mapped unless you are after the very best of what you can work with. As Alfa_tuner (gus i assume) said people do re map fully as sometimes it can be the best way, certainly if there are slight issues. I know the person who owns the first angel tunning chipped 156 on a 55 plate I think it is (1.8td?)and they spent alot of time trying to get it right, it occasionally over boots so motor control failure comes up but the owner hasnt bothered taking it back, but for something that on a road car doesnt really matter about the real fine details whats the point? as long as an origional has been done properly and has been tried and tested then copied maps will be fine on all if the same stock parts are used. Superships blue fin has 1 generic map for each model but then 3 other maps based on the obvious mods you can do i.e exhaust, filter etc and they dont have any problems at all!! If it was say on a race car or track car then I would pay the money (19bhp gain on my ts 2.0 with standard exhaust) but it cost me 600 if for road application I would just use adie!!


543bhp in road spec 698bhp in race spec with nos
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Hi paul
Thanks we can do custom maps as well
its just all these places saying
they are doing custom remaps for every car for under £200
in 1/2 hour with 2 power runs on the rollers winds us all up
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Alfa tuner an overview on remaps etc would be great!
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

Hi Adie,

I think the work you did on Tim Lewis's car after the other muppets origionally did it is testament enough to your skills in mapping.

After all the work I had done I can understand why it winds you up when they re map in that way! My 75 spent days on the rollers doing it right with bills of £1500+ Even my dads car spent 7 hours hence the rather impressive 19bhp gain. Would you be up for looking at the 156 racer I'm doing for E? Most people I have spoken to are not to interested because of the fact its a CF2 but running the higher comp pistons! as they cant just upload there generic maps then!
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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Originally Posted by alfaholic75 View Post
Hi Adie,

I think the work you did on Tim Lewis's car after the other muppets origionally did it is testament enough to your skills in mapping.

After all the work I had done I can understand why it winds you up when they re map in that way! My 75 spent days on the rollers doing it right with bills of 1500+ Even my dads car spent 7 hours hence the rather impressive 19bhp gain. Would you be up for looking at the 156 racer I'm doing for E? Most people I have spoken to are not to interested because of the fact its a CF2 but running the higher comp pistons! as they cant just upload there generic maps then!
Now,now ,Paul with prices like that you are going to upset the 200.00 tuning experts,after all according to everybody else in the series when they were trying to crusify me and my cars last few years a remap is a remap.But on a more serious note i am glad a few people,yourself included,understand the difference between hours or even days of hard work,or ten minute maps.
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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Now,now ,Paul with prices like that you are going to upset the 200.00 tuning experts,after all according to everybody else in the series when they were trying to crusify me and my cars last few years a remap is a remap.But on a more serious note i am glad a few people,yourself included,understand the difference between hours or even days of hard work,or ten minute maps.

Ha Ha, Unfortunately I must have missed out on all that as I had no idea. Well I have 2 friends who do remapping and one of them has to go back to the states every 24 months to learn the new software and also be examined so that he can keep his supplier status of thier equipment. Also I saw a couple of suppliers maps who did the td cars and it was just more fuel and boost and that was it. I didnt believe it at first but one time when the bill was going to be very hefty they invited me to stay for the duration and see what they where doing. I was lost after about the first minute when he started going on about taking the 4 corners of the map and overlaying them on some cross sectional bass map drone drone bore bore etc. I reckon in the 2 days the car ran 20 times and many hours where spent tweaking the map. in the end i gained 50bhp and ran 0.3 bar of boost less!!!! So yes sir I cartainly have some understanding of the work that goes into it properly but as I said for the road I would use some one like adie or yourself who have obviously done it properly the first time round and then use that as a general map which you can sell off cheaper. However I would only do that for a road car. If i wanted it to be the very best then I know its going to cost and the credit card will come out
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

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Originally Posted by AHM View Post
Hi paul
Thanks we can do custom maps as well
its just all these places saying
they are doing custom remaps for every car for under 200
in 1/2 hour with 2 power runs on the rollers winds us all up
we can all find a stick to beat a dog with.

Red Dot do have days (ond one on the the 8th of feb) where a remap is 180quid.

Remember (and search the internet fo the proof - i did) these guys have been remapping alfas before many of us were born, yes hey can do cheaper than others - why - they can do it in their sleep, they've been doing it that long!

They took my 140bhp alfa to 215bhp, four versions of maps based upom many other visits, probably 12 versions in toyal during modding, it was not a case of a couple of runs and job done.

whislt there are many poor mappers out there, I think we all need to be carefull about such loose claims about - quote " doing custom remaps for every car for under 200"

I am an expert in my field, (not remaping) but there is always someone cleverer than me...modesty is better than bragart!
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Re: Generic Vs Custom Re-map

In fact, I get the impresion this is more publicity than anything else...

So I challenge the tuners on here to better each other, I can bring down an Alfa 147Ti 8v Jtd or any other car on my list below, put your mony where your mouth is, stop slagging of sub £200 tuner and show me what you can do, I'll do the distnace one to another and provide an unbiased review on each one of you - up for it?

each car will be tested on one rolling road (after your own) to avoid any descrepencies in power differencies - OK?
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