Who has a supercharged V6? - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 25 Old 18-01-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Who has a supercharged V6?

its a kit im seriously considering in the future but i have a reservation that needs sorting one way or another.

as far as im aware, cos im not really up on alfa V6 engine tuning, there is only Autodelta that does a supercharger kit. at just over £5k its a serious chunk of wedge. for those that have had this done and i only know of Pablos 147GTA on here, is it worth the cash? apart from the obvious power gains are there any other benefits? will it affect the engine in the long run? (using any sort of forced induction usually means lower compression pistons) i will be doing a couple of engine mods in the near future, induction kit, GTA cams and remap. will the charger run ok with these or will i have to undo this work?

another question aimed at those of you with serious technical know-how. is it possible to do a DIY supercharger conversion? well i know its possible but is it a job only for the professionals? i read an article briefly in Practical Performance Car mag last year which had a kinda rough guide to doing the conversion yourself but il be buggered if i can find it now

any help/advice/opinions are welcome as i need to be completely sure of the pros and cons before i blow my cash on this kit.

Cheers, Gareth

Gaz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Member
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cornwall
Posts: 999

Member car:

GTV CUP 47

Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Morning.
I phoned Jano about 2 weeks ago asking the same!
Yes you can use the Cam Upgrades with the Supercharger. As for how many people have had Superchargers on v6....They said they are very popular and did 4 last month. Takes a week to do any you get a courtesy car also.
The Big Dog is offline  
jwq
Status: driving Giulia Veloce AWD
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
jwq's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 6,713
Garage
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Bit further down..

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...n-the-way.html
jwq is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

I would have a word with Adie from AHM as well. Just tell him how much power you want, and he'll give you a couple of options and various prices. I'm sure his labour rate will be cheaper than AutoDeltas, and as an engine builder his reputation is up there at the top.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 25 Old 18-01-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

good stuff dan.
Gaz is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 352
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
another question aimed at those of you with serious technical know-how. is it possible to do a DIY supercharger conversion? well i know its possible but is it a job only for the professionals? i read an article briefly in Practical Performance Car mag last year which had a kinda rough guide to doing the conversion yourself but il be buggered if i can find it now
DIY perfectly feasible... so long as you have patience, space to work and preferably some decent fabrication skills (just being able to make up decent brackets, tap threads so on and so forth would be vital).

I've looked seriously at DIY turbo'ing / super charging cars before, collected many bits over the years but never actually done it. I've generall looked at turbo's and the challenge there is always the exhaust manifold (i.e. making one!) but that's not an issue with a supercharger and belts and pulleys are quite simple things in comparison.

If I were to start, I would source the charger first. Plenty of stuff on eBay and in the scrapyards. Would need to make sure it would give the characteristics you would want and then hunt out. I would then spend some serious time thinking how to mount it which until you have the candidate in your hands, will be difficult to assess...

The real challenge will be in the re-map / fueling. I don't know how easy it is to programme the Bosch setup... assuming a suitable interface could be sourced, you could probably do a basic setup for a modest BHP increase quite simply but if you were going all out, you may need to consider an aftermarket fully programmable ECU.

Lots of work, more in planning / R&D than actual doing, but I would say you could do it for less than £1k, maybe significantly less...

Let me know if you're serious about it and want to throw some ideas around!
ChrisH is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 25 Old 03-02-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

cheers Chris, thats helpful. and for less than £1k too? thats very helpful im really considering it seriously so when the time comes, il revive this thread from the death
Gaz is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 352
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
cheers Chris, thats helpful. and for less than £1k too? thats very helpful im really considering it seriously so when the time comes, il revive this thread from the death
Yep. Forced induction is always cheap power, it just requires a lot of thought put into it, which is why 'kits' cost so much (coupled with the fact that people will pay a lot of £££ per BHP).

As an example, check out these on eBay at the moment:

140299072044
260355797709

Both have potential and you would be able to pick up either if you weren't in a hurry for less than £200. Speculating of the top of my head some other costs:

Intercooler £50
Hoses £50
Belt £50
Brackets etc. £20
Fuel Pressure Regulator (may not be neccessary) £20

...and I think you could do that cheaper if you were really on the hunt for bargains!

Obviously getting the mapping right is the hard bit, I'm not sure what interface / software is required to re-programme the ECU but I'm guessing it must be available... this would largely dertermine the final cost but in any case it would be sensible to get friendly with a decent rolling road place and budget a good few hundred to get things dialled in. If it were me though I would be looking to see the maps first so I could at least do an initial setup myself... even if you set aside £400, which in cash should buy you quite a bit of time, that's less than £800 in total!

Food for thought.
ChrisH is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Lancianut69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Posts: 104
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
Yep. Forced induction is always cheap power, it just requires a lot of thought put into it, which is why 'kits' cost so much (coupled with the fact that people will pay a lot of £££ per BHP).

As an example, check out these on eBay at the moment:

140299072044
260355797709

Both have potential and you would be able to pick up either if you weren't in a hurry for less than £200. Speculating of the top of my head some other costs:

Intercooler £50
Hoses £50
Belt £50
Brackets etc. £20
Fuel Pressure Regulator (may not be neccessary) £20

...and I think you could do that cheaper if you were really on the hunt for bargains!

Obviously getting the mapping right is the hard bit, I'm not sure what interface / software is required to re-programme the ECU but I'm guessing it must be available... this would largely dertermine the final cost but in any case it would be sensible to get friendly with a decent rolling road place and budget a good few hundred to get things dialled in. If it were me though I would be looking to see the maps first so I could at least do an initial setup myself... even if you set aside £400, which in cash should buy you quite a bit of time, that's less than £800 in total!

Food for thought.
The second one is an M62 charger, which is a little small for a V6 unit. i've been told that the M90 is the one to go for. I don't know about the Jag advertised one, they use different types, but it may well be worth dropping them an email for further information.

If you're a DIY kinda guy, and looking at budget, you could opt for the Megasquirt ECU either as a bought unit or a kit of parts from the States - fully programable and lots of info on it out there on the net. Northampton Motorsport know how to set them up too and they have a good name as knowing their stuff. I'm going to do the same thing - ie an M90 on a V6, put into a Lancia Montecarlo. Still need to do the calculations to see if I can get a 24 valve in there, or whether I'll be restricted to a 12.

Cheers

Darren

There's a fine line between a hobby & a mental illness!!
Lancianut69 is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Have a look on sprintex's website, they used to have a blower calculator there somewhere. This would HELP you with your quest for information ( a little, don't take it as gospel though!) but the best bet would be to buy Greg Gordons Alfa supercharging book. Don't know his exact details but you'll find him on the Alfa Bulletin board

John.
strat24v is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 25 Old 04-02-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

handy. il look into that.

do you guys reckon 300bhp up from 220 is feasible and realistic then? i would aim for more but its a bit scary at the moment (the project, not the power ) i would like more but 300 is enough to start off with
Gaz is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Lancianut69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Posts: 104
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strat24v View Post
Have a look on sprintex's website, they used to have a blower calculator there somewhere. This would HELP you with your quest for information ( a little, don't take it as gospel though!) but the best bet would be to buy Greg Gordons Alfa supercharging book. Don't know his exact details but you'll find him on the Alfa Bulletin board

John.
Supercharger Kit about halfway down the page

hope this helps!

Darren
Lancianut69 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
MattyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: West Mids
Posts: 1,083

Member car:

VW

Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
handy. il look into that.

do you guys reckon 300bhp up from 220 is feasible and realistic then? i would aim for more but its a bit scary at the moment (the project, not the power ) i would like more but 300 is enough to start off with
Depends on what your plans are - mainly as a road car, 300 is more than enough. Problem is that on today roads, you don't get a chance to use it.

With trackdays in mind, it becomes a different story.

Autodelta are expensive - but their work is top notch, and one thing I can say is that they never sell you stuff you don't need. Jano could have easily sold me uprated brakes, clutch etc as I thought I needed them, but he never encouraged it. Work they did for me has been 100% reliable, and when the guys at SimplyAlfa's looked at it for other work, they commented on how tidy it all was.

Can recommend them - but its alot of wonga!

--
Matt
MattyB is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 352
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancianut69 View Post
i've been told that the M90 is the one to go for.

If you're a DIY kinda guy, and looking at budget, you could opt for the Megasquirt ECU either as a bought unit or a kit of parts from the States
Would obviously need to makle sure you get one with enough puff, but there are plenty out there these days so with some research and patience sourcing something suitable shouldnt be a problem...

...Megaquirt is very good. I've used MegaJolt before just for ignition and its a great bit of kit. Certainly provides a good backup in case you cant get the standard ECU working... though I would think that is a very real option with the right programming interface?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
handy. il look into that.

do you guys reckon 300bhp up from 220 is feasible and realistic then? i would aim for more but its a bit scary at the moment (the project, not the power ) i would like more but 300 is enough to start off with
I would say 300BHP would be very attainable. I don't think you could go over this without looking at lowering compression ratios etc. but I think you could get near to if not up to 300BHP with what is essentially bolt on kit. You would have to be cairfull with the fueling and ignition timing to make sure it didn't suffer pinking, but keeping the intake cool with a good intercooler would also help this a lot.

As stated initially. Loads of very achievable power available, but its just too much too think about for most which is why the pros charge a lot to do it... I'm not saying that is wrong, but you can achieve the same results with time, research and patience.

Whilst on the subject of books btw. Whilst somewhat out of date on the whole, I would recommend anything by David Vizard. The man is a genius and his books very comprehensive yet understandable. For a really good intro to engine tuning - of everything from carbs and fueling to porting, cams, turbos and nitrous - you could do a lot worse than reading 'Tuning the A Series Engine'. It may be specific to age old technology, but seriously, the principles are still sound today, the internal combustion engine is what it always was after all.

Chris
ChrisH is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

One other concern you will have is where to site the supercharger. They take up quite a bit of space, guess the only realistic place to fit it would be right where the aircon pump is fitted, using the point where the aircon pump is mounted to attach the mounting sub assembly. Be aware that it can be quite an engineering job using numerous milled components etc. The belt has to run perfectly true otherwise it will either break or jump off. You may find that you need an extra groove or two machining on the crank pulley for the blower drive belt, probably a new, one off water pump pulley too. As you can see, not as easy as first thought. Both ChrisS and myself have been through this scenario so know the pitfalls

I decided to move away from the forced induction, going down that avenue would have meant me having to run in a higher capacity class due to the usual 1.4 equivalent increase for Boosted engines (4.2) I went for full independent throttle bodies (home made ), cams, Omex Ecu etc so should net the 300bhp max,albeit a little more peaky but lighter weight too.

Navara Pickup- to carry me junk.
GP4 Stratos replica, modded 3.2 gta. - in the back.

Last edited by strat24v; 05-02-09 at 12:41.
strat24v is offline  
Status: -
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 39
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

hi supercharged v6 is a great idea
i did work for the Alfa workshop in royston and in my time there we did a few mainly 164s and gtvs but also an SZ (400bhp)
a lot of work but if done properly not a lot will beat it on acceleration and they sound amazing
autodelta's conversions are quite simple and use the standard engine but are very good for the money.
my advise is to jump right in when you get the chance
hardcorealfaman is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 352
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcorealfaman View Post
hi supercharged v6 is a great idea
i did work for the Alfa workshop in royston and in my time there we did a few mainly 164s and gtvs but also an SZ (400bhp)
a lot of work but if done properly not a lot will beat it on acceleration and they sound amazing
autodelta's conversions are quite simple and use the standard engine but are very good for the money.
my advise is to jump right in when you get the chance
Loving that enthusiam! Get going Gaz!
ChrisH is offline  
Status: Bavarian
Admin Team
 
bobda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
County: -
Posts: 15,172

Member car:

Not a GT

Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

I'm surprised noone has mentioned it (unless I've missed it), or if you already knew - but Pabloss has a supercharged 147 GTA. I thought you'd have known that?
bobda is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 25 Old 06-02-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobda View Post
I'm surprised noone has mentioned it (unless I've missed it), or if you already knew - but Pabloss has a supercharged 147 GTA. I thought you'd have known that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
for those that have had this done and i only know of Pablos 147GTA on here
Gaz is offline  
Status: Have another Alfa
AO Gold Member
 
wayne-dear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Liverpool
County: Merseyside
Posts: 10,560
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Gaz, would you not consider the 3.7 big bore kit???????
wayne-dear is offline  
Status: Bavarian
Admin Team
 
bobda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
County: -
Posts: 15,172

Member car:

Not a GT

Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz_GTV View Post
bobda is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,814
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wscwunda View Post
Gaz, would you not consider the 3.7 big bore kit???????
On a 3.0 its a lot more expensive, as you need to get the crank from a 3.2 to make it work. Using the 3.0 crank, I think the max you can go is 3.5 litres.
Pud237 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 352
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobda View Post
I'm surprised noone has mentioned it (unless I've missed it), or if you already knew - but Pabloss has a supercharged 147 GTA. I thought you'd have known that?

Which is great... but... did he not pay Autodelta £4500 for it? Would be great if someone stepped up to the DIY challenge to prove with time and effort you could do it for a lot less...
ChrisH is offline  
Status: Got toys!
AO Member
 
strat24v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: derbyshire, uk.
Posts: 691
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

you can if you have some spare time.
strat24v is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 25 Old 07-02-09 Thread Starter
Gaz
Status: Privileged
Regional Support North
Is there a meet near you?
 
Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Behind the wheel
County: Lancashire
Posts: 63,353
Re: Who has a supercharged V6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wscwunda View Post
Gaz, would you not consider the 3.7 big bore kit???????
if i can do a supercharger kit for little money then a big bore engine conversion would be an option further down the line i would think. i did wonder about the main difference between the 3.0 and the 3.2, seems its only a different crank. probably a longer stroke, hence 200cc more. getting the cylinders bored out to 3500cc and fitting a 3.2 crank sounds very possible. theres probably more to it than that i suspect. there usually is with these things i suppose if i get the 3.5/3.7 conversion, i may as well get low-comp pistons while im at it and up the boost

after all, its only money innit
Gaz is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
supercharged

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome