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(Post Link) post #1 of 113 Old 31-12-08 Thread Starter
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Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

Hello everybody,

I'm new here and i'm looking for guys who know alot of Alfa's so this will be the right place
I want to built a really good JTD engine for a 147 race car, but know really little about alfa's.
Engine is a 8v 1.9 JTD from 2004.
I want about 220 hp and 450 Nm out of this engine and still be reliable for racing.
Has anybody done something like that here allready?
I have a lot of expirience with tuning diesel engine but need to know bottlenecks of those engines.
Can someone help me with some of those questions?
-how big are cr nozzles? And is there something bigger available?
-Is a cr pump of a 2.4 JTD bigger as from 1.9 and will this fit?
-Does anybody know specs of the cam? degrees, LSA and lift?
-What's the size of the valves in the head?
-How strong is drivetrain? (it has a Q2 LSD diff allready)

Would be great if someone can help me out a little
Thank you guys in advance!

Regards, Jo
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

16valve head, bigger turbo, large fmic, remove the bottle neck before the intake manifold, the heads on the 8/10v's are not great, better starting with a 16valve head which closes off 8 valves to create velocity in the combustion chamber at low revs.
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

Your target figure can be achieved with the 8v head,

But I still would go for Jason's suggestions because you will be fairly close to those figures with a re-map on the 16v engine.

I just started on the further development of the 1.9 and there is a lot more to be extracted from this unit.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 113 Old 02-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

Thanks for your posts.
I think i'll stick with the 8v, but is it easy to convert to 16v?

The engine has a GT2256V of a 2.4 allready, EGR bottleneck before intake manifold is a nice straight pipe allready and complete exhaust is 60 mm.
Are there bigger injector nozzles available for those engines?
Stock map sensor is 250 kPa?
Has the 16V 300 Kpa?
And has someone an idea how much torque the stock bottomend can hold?

Regards, Jo
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

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Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Thanks for your posts.
I think i'll stick with the 8v, but is it easy to convert to 16v?

The engine has a GT2256V of a 2.4 allready, EGR bottleneck before intake manifold is a nice straight pipe allready and complete exhaust is 60 mm.
Are there bigger injector nozzles available for those engines?
Stock map sensor is 250 kPa?
Has the 16V 300 Kpa?
And has someone an idea how much torque the stock bottomend can hold?

Regards, Jo
I know of one I did a little work on that had over 450lb ft or 60kgm or 600Nm.

Bosch supplies maps with more than 300kPa.

Keep induction as short as possible.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 113 Old 02-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

That a lot of Torque!!
So i don't really have to worry about the bottomend

I've bought a spare head with cam and injectors today.
So i'll look what i can do with it.
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(Post Link) post #7 of 113 Old 07-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

I've looked at the head and it is pretty nice.
Valves aren't as small as i thought.
Cam is about 220 deg and 8,5 mm lift and is not to bad eighter.
C&B makes a cam for JTD so maybe we'll try that one.
Injectors are really small and that's really the limiting factor on this engine IMO.
I don't think they flow more as 165 hp.
I've allready found something with will fit and is pretty big

I've heard the gearbox can't really take more than 420 Nm.
Does anybody knows more about this?
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

What I am looking into now is....16v unit and Bosch Motorsport 2400BAR CR system.

MB C 250cdi....twin-turbo 2.2 diesel 204 is already running 2000bar...we have to find out which type of CR pump it uses.

about the 165hp....they can flow more power :-)
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

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Originally Posted by kgb View Post
What I am looking into now is....16v unit and Bosch Motorsport 2400BAR CR system.

MB C 250cdi....twin-turbo 2.2 diesel 204 is already running 2000bar...we have to find out which type of CR pump it uses.
how much more fuel do you expect to inject by going to 2000 or 2400 bar? will the stock injectors work at that pressure?
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

CR system from Bosch Motorsport comes with injectors as well...
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(Post Link) post #11 of 113 Old 12-01-09 Thread Starter
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Re: Tuning 1.9 JTD for racing

Yes the bosch motorsport CR system is really great.
With the EDC MS15.1 ECU it's a really nice set!
But quite expencive!!
I think i will stick with as much as possible stock parts.
Will CR pump flow 220+ hp @ high pressure?
Is a 2.4 pump bigger?
And will it fit?
Can anybody tell me that?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
I've looked at the head and it is pretty nice.
Valves aren't as small as i thought.
Cam is about 220 deg and 8,5 mm lift and is not to bad eighter.
C&B makes a cam for JTD so maybe we'll try that one.
Injectors are really small and that's really the limiting factor on this engine IMO.
I don't think they flow more as 165 hp.
I've allready found something with will fit and is pretty big

I've heard the gearbox can't really take more than 420 Nm.
Does anybody knows more about this?
did you ever try that C&B cam(MJTD.SM1) ?
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I have the C&B cams on my JTD...
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Quote:
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I have the C&B cams on my JTD...
How is it in a daily driver ?
What is the gain in hp what the same boost before and after?
I'm think about gettin one, if the are worths it.

Did you buy it dirrect from C&B ?

Oh, and i know that you know alot, so let me pick your brain some more
I'm think about changing the shuttervale house for a bigger one, but I do not know wich one to get.

Offcaus if other knows the answers, pleas tell.
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It is absolutely perfect for daily driver.

That I don't know exactly as I have not measure it...but the car pulls a lot harder from 3500 to 4500rpm...and you can inject a lot more fuel before getting any smoke.

Yep, I bought it directly from C&B

If I understand you corectly you can get rid of the shutter valve all together...

If you ask me if the C&B cam is worth it...YES it is :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfast View Post
I'm think about changing the shuttervale house for a bigger one, but I do not know wich one to get.
The shuttervalve isn't the real bottleneck, the entrance on the manifold is. (47mm)
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Quote:
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It is absolutely perfect for daily driver.

That I don't know exactly as I have not measure it...but the car pulls a lot harder from 3500 to 4500rpm...and you can inject a lot more fuel before getting any smoke.

Yep, I bought it directly from C&B

If I understand you corectly you can get rid of the shutter valve all together...

If you ask me if the C&B cam is worth it...YES it is :-)

I waiting for reply about price and shipping from acarmilano.com (C&B's reseller for the international market).

"If I understand you corectly you can get rid of the shutter valve all together..."
Won't the car have a hard time switching off with out the valve ? Or is there just in case something should go wrong so that there will continue to get diesel into the engine? And then the shutter valve can kill air supply?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS JTD View Post
The shuttervalve isn't the real bottleneck, the entrance on the manifold is. (47mm)
I will receive today a used intake manifold for a 1.9 8v, and I will take some pictures and measure it.

What you guys recommend that I do with it?






Cut the first pice off the inlet, just after where it gets bigger?

Last edited by notfast; 04-09-09 at 14:39. Reason: needed pic
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ops, just ordered an MJTD.SM1 from C&B :-)
Bought from acarmilano.com cost eur 348,65 + shipment and vat.

got 10km to 80.000 and then i need a cam belt change (if i remeber right).

I had my car on a rolling road 3000km's ago, and thinking about changing cam and then on rolling road again before remap and other mods.
You know just to see if there is any change.
Is i had alot of money, i would remap my car to see what a stock car + cam and remap i capale off.
But i think i just put the cam in and roll it. Then wait for bigger turbo and IC.
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Hi Brunswick Racing ran a deisel for a couple years in europe inc Nurburing 24hr race.Speak to Dave. www brunswickracing.co.uk. Cheers Mike
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It would be nice if you have a rolling road before/after...but you don't have to touch anything in order to see the real results.

Stock car+cam and remap is capable off...very good improvement...BUT the question is for how long
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It would be nice if you have a rolling road before/after...but you don't have to touch anything in order to see the real results.



Stock car+cam and remap is capable off...very good improvement...BUT the question is for how long
Getting more air in the engine (with the same pressure) must give more power, but yes only a rolling road will tell how much more.
rolling road is cheap enough and i'll do that.

Then i have to get my car custom remaped 2 times (after cam and again after turbo + IC) and it will cost alot :-(
What do you think will fail ? I would still want to keep boost safe.
I only have an 2.5bar map sensor and then i can't use over 1.55 boost, right?
Will my turbo (gt1749vm i think) hold 1.55bar safe?
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Quote:
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Getting more air in the engine (with the same pressure) must give more power, but yes only a rolling road will tell how much more.
rolling road is cheap enough and i'll do that.
Only more air will not give you more power... it's the xtra fuel that makes the power.

So installing the cam only and put it on the dyno is useless imo.

Best is to log the air mass during multiple acceleration tests on the road, that tells you something! Then if you know how much extra air goes in, you also know how much extra fuel you can put in. Not before that you have your power gain.

I'm also thinking about that, with the proper diagnostic tools you can read very valuable data from your engine and compare different parts/modifications !
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Only more air will not give you more power... it's the xtra fuel that makes the power.

So installing the cam only and put it on the dyno is useless imo.

Best is to log the air mass during multiple acceleration tests on the road, that tells you something! Then if you know how much extra air goes in, you also know how much extra fuel you can put in. Not before that you have your power gain.

I'm also thinking about that, with the proper diagnostic tools you can read very valuable data from your engine and compare different parts/modifications !

So you are saying that the MAF would not se the xtra air going through the engine?
If the NAF see more flow will it not give more diesel?

Where can I buy a cheap "proper diagnostic tool" ?
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