F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results) - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 1450 Old 15-10-08 Thread Starter
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F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Finally got the car on some rollers today to find out just how many horses and torque's it had, the quoted gain for this "Box" is 252bhp and 354 Ibs/ft.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...0019smudge.jpg
well pleased with the results.

Edit update!:
Well here we are 3 yrs on and still doing more modding, if you don't fancy reading through 45 pages then watch the vid and then skip to page 46!
:-)
http://youtu.be/42MGwcJho-M

Last edited by jbsmith1; 21-01-12 at 23:23.
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Wow, what does that equate to in real world driveability and power to weight? That torque figure is very impressive.
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Wow, what does that equate to in real world driveability and power to weight? That torque figure is very impressive.
yes the torque supprised me too, on the road I posted in another thread that it will do 50-70 in 4th in 3.8 seconds, and thats on those 19's that weigh a "ton" 14kg each with out tyre.
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

14kg's each??? Whaaaaattt that's more than all 4 wheels on my car haha. Nice increases Is it a 4 or 2wd drive one bud?

Last edited by Damien_C; 15-10-08 at 21:52.
 
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Very good results!

How does it 'feel' on the road
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Very impressive
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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14kg's each??? Whaaaaattt that's more than all 4 wheels on my car haha. Nice increases Is it a 4 or 2wd drive one bud?
2wd

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Very good results!
How does it 'feel' on the road
its a joy to drive, a perfect sports tourer, I had a very close "race" with one of them old Audi RS2 avants this morning and there was nothing in it from 50mph up >cough< to quite high speeds
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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its a joy to drive, a perfect sports tourer, I had a very close "race" with one of them old Audi RS2 avants this morning and there was nothing in it from 50mph up >cough< to quite high speeds
Fair play mate Its not fair though, GTA's rule but diesels are winning in the torque stakes
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2wd
I don't mean to sound bad but their is a huge correction % between the whp and the fwhp. Normally they are about 10% for a fwd car.
 
(Post Link) post #10 of 1450 Old 16-10-08 Thread Starter
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Fair play mate Its not fair though, GTA's rule but diesels are winning in the torque stakes
no worries Jim, ya can't win em all
...got to watch out for those diesels in motor sport too there winning BTCC, WTCC, Le Mans!
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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I don't mean to sound bad but their is a huge correction &#37; between the whp and the fwhp. Normally they are about 10% for a fwd car.
You've mentioned this 10% figure on a few threads now, but on the 159 the transmission losses were measured as 19% for FWD and 33% for Q4. I think its about the same for a GTA too as most make around 200bhp at the wheels.

This dyno estimated ~24% transmission losses, so if you say it really only had a 19% transmission loss that would mean peak power is around 235bhp.. But anyway, still an impressive result, bet it transforms the car
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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You've mentioned this 10% figure on a few threads now, but on the 159 the transmission losses were measured as 19% for FWD and 33% for Q4. I think its about the same for a GTA too as most make around 200bhp at the wheels.

This dyno estimated ~24% transmission losses, so if you say it really only had a 19% transmission loss that would mean peak power is around 235bhp.. But anyway, still an impressive result, bet it transforms the car
19% for a 159 sounds low to me? the 19 inch wheels alone will influence it quite a lot?

still very impressive ..... now for the cheeky plug for something i'm selling... p box for sale...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/alfa-159-Brera...d=p3286.c0.m14 or buy it now for 400 plug over
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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This dyno estimated ~24&#37; transmission losses
don't really know mate, the cars only done 6k may be the box is still a bit tight, (edit) oh yes and those lead weight wheels
Engine Advantages are well respected round here, bit like Red Dot and others, they have worked with manufacturers such as Ford (WRC), Skoda (WRC), MG (Le Mans LMP 675, BTC and Rally) and Nissan (World Series).
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I did take some video of it on the rollers, will try get it up on youtube soon, heres a still from the footage.
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File Type: gif Rolling-road-15102008Brera-.gif (89.3 KB, 272 views)

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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Cool, did you try adjusting the box?

Ned
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Originally Posted by jbsmith1 View Post
Finally got the car on some rollers today to find out just how many horses and torque's it had, the quoted gain for this "Box" is 252bhp and 354 Ibs/ft.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...File0019-1.jpg
well pleased with the results.
Monster torque!

never have much faith in rolling roads but give you a good idea of improvements

cant believe how much grunt these 2.4 210's have. my last car was 530bhp 500lb/ft at 1800kg - obviously no slouch but didnt feel twice as fast

2.4 feels 80% as quick 90% of the time.... (55% of statistics are made up )
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Cool, did you try adjusting the box?

Ned
Hi Ned, I didn't think of changing the dip switches (head butt wall!) don't tell me it could have made more (double head butt on wall!!)
oh well I may change the rear zorst boxs over the winter and go back for re run.

[QUOTE=marcevo1;2121834]Monster torque!
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You've mentioned this 10&#37; figure on a few threads now, but on the 159 the transmission losses were measured as 19% for FWD and 33% for Q4. I think its about the same for a GTA too as most make around 200bhp at the wheels.

This dyno estimated ~24% transmission losses, so if you say it really only had a 19% transmission loss that would mean peak power is around 235bhp.. But anyway, still an impressive result, bet it transforms the car
Who measured it at 19%?? 19% is huge the amount of heat generated by an engine is massive?? And to say that near on 20% of it generated is "wasted" via the use of the gears and the heating of the oil in the box??? Seems a bit much to me. The acutally heat loss is 37.6KW of heat Thats enough energy to heat a small house. And the formula is hp / 1.34 = KW


And I would never personally believe Fwhp figures as well if you want to know the correct fwhp figure go take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno and you will have the correct figure.

I will get my fool of an engine dynoed and only quote the whp figures if it get's 60bhp I'll be happy I would doubt it would get anymore really.

And tuners and tuning box companies love the aul inflation of figures.

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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Puma Race Engines Technical Guide - Measuring Engine power - engine dynos and rolling road dynos good article for reference
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

measuring the difference/increase before (without the box) and after (with it plugged in) would be a good way to go.
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Hi James - awesome results and an absolutely beautiful Brera.

Would you mind posting your experiences with fuel economy post-remap? I am considering either the P-Box or a custom map (most likely Autodelta) at the moment.

Cheers.
 
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Hi James - awesome results and an absolutely beautiful Brera.

Would you mind posting your experiences with fuel economy post-remap? I am considering either the P-Box or a custom map (most likely Autodelta) at the moment.

Cheers.
Thanks ...the best economy I have managed is 45mpg by the on board computer, driving very gently no more than 0.8 bar boost and not over 2k rpm, 80&#37; motorway 20% B roads, gets very boring though!!
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

Tech Page interesting reading...

how it feels on the road imo counts for more than a dyno

bhp sells cars - torque moves them!
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Hi James - awesome results and an absolutely beautiful Brera.

Would you mind posting your experiences with fuel economy post-remap? I am considering either the P-Box or a custom map (most likely Autodelta) at the moment.

Cheers.
asked mangos about AD remap - it does effect warranty when you ask them - bhp power increases arent hugh in comparison to the competition claims. They couldnt tellme what torque it gave... so walked away

hence i didnt go down this route
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Thanks ...the best economy I have managed is 45mpg by the on board computer, driving very gently no more than 0.8 bar boost and not over 2k rpm, 80% motorway 20% B roads, gets very boring though!!
Thanks - that's very interesting. I have managed to nurse my (currently standard) car up to 39mpg and that's driving VERY gently.

I guess it comes down to the P-Box (but I can't make head nor tail of their warranty info on the web - the English is awful) or a custom map with no warranty cover.

And then there's the decision as to whether this is relevant as the enjoyment might outweigh the warranty concerns!

Thanks for the info.
 
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re: F1 Brera Progress Thread (formally 2.4 20v P-box dyno results)

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Thanks - that's very interesting. I have managed to nurse my (currently standard) car up to 39mpg and that's driving VERY gently.

I guess it comes down to the P-Box (but I can't make head nor tail of their warranty info on the web - the English is awful) or a custom map with no warranty cover.

And then there's the decision as to whether this is relevant as the enjoyment might outweigh the warranty concerns!

Thanks for the info.

you can just remove the p box and the ecu has no record that its been there ;-) 20 minute job to do

eitherway i'd say do it as the fun factor is well worth the risk IMO

did i mention theres a 2.4 p box on ebay? finishes on sunday - unless someone wants to offer 400? (100 saving)
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