What other turbos are direct fit? 1.9 16v mjet - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 29 Old 06-01-18 Thread Starter
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What other turbos are direct fit? 1.9 16v mjet

Hello AO members, after many and many hours of googling I always end up getting here, this shows me there is a massive amount of knowledge here. So let me tell you a little about why I'm going to ask some questions. After driving my friends Alfa 147 1.9 16v I decided to take a turn from petrol vehicles and get a nice and fast diesel, so I sold my Audi A3 8p sport 2litre fsi (cheap/shoddy car for a big name) and decided to buy a Fiat Bravo 2007 1.9 16v 150hp version, I was initially happy with the cars handling and medicore performance, within the week I have remapped it myself running a max of 2450hpa of boost, today I have deleted EGR with blanking plate and in ECU, so now I am fairly happy with the performance. Today while testing a hard cut limiter I revved the car and due to my exhaust work I did which is 2nd cat deleted and stright pipe to side exit exhaust to the left hand side of the car, I notices oil coming from the exhaust droplets on the ground, so then while blocking EGR off I notices intake is full of black oil/carbon deposits, it is likely my turbo is slowly dying, and makes a terrible screeching noise and blow off sort of noise due to stright pipe, and siren noise, so here we my questions

1. Are there any direct bolt on turbos for my car which can increase performance?

2. Will I have to replace MAF?

3. Have got straight pipe, shall I also delete manifold cat converter,will I see more performance?

4. If I remove exhaust manifold/ turbo heatshields is it hot enough to damage components which are close such as the left hand side coolant pipe and the steel coolant pipes over the top of exhaust manifold

5. Best way to check if my turbo is dying? Axial shaft play? Radial shaft play?

6. Is the standard front mount intercooler good enough?.... Ambient outside temperatures are about 5 degrees Celsius now and I see manifold temperature of 35-40 degrees Celsius under heavy load

7. Any more tuning options I am open to advice

Thanks all

Last edited by Walshy155; 06-01-18 at 17:53.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshy155 View Post
... After driving my friends Alfa 147 1.9 16v I decided to take a turn from petrol vehicles and get a nice and fast diesel, so I sold my Audi A3 8p sport 2litre fsi (cheap/shoddy car for a big name) and decided to buy a Fiat Bravo 2007 1.9 16v 150hp version...
My transition from petrol to diesel was 2008, after driving an Fiat Bravo 1.9 16v 150hp...
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(Post Link) post #3 of 29 Old 06-01-18 Thread Starter
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it's a marvellous little car and I have owned many car a from many manufacturers and it ticks all the boxes for me one downside I find is that it is a little low as standard, so now I'm trying to improve performance and have done some simple things so far like stright through, EGR and stage 1 map. I hope to find more mods I can do here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshy155 View Post
1. Are there any direct bolt on turbos for my car which can increase performance?

2. Will I have to replace MAF?

3. Have got straight pipe, shall I also delete manifold cat converter,will I see more performance?

4. If I remove exhaust manifold/ turbo heatshields is it hot enough to damage components which are close such as the left hand side coolant pipe and the steel coolant pipes over the top of exhaust manifold

5. Best way to check if my turbo is dying? Axial shaft play? Radial shaft play?

6. Is the standard front mount intercooler good enough?.... Ambient outside temperatures are about 5 degrees Celsius now and I see manifold temperature of 35-40 degrees Celsius under heavy load

7. Any more tuning options I am open to advice

Thanks all
1) No, there are some upgrade kits available, but it usually still requires some work to fit...

2) Stock one is OK for about 220-230HP. Any higher you will have to upgrade it.

3) Yes.

4) No idea, but heat shields are usually there for a reason...

5) Bearing play is one of the main indicators yes.

6) You should consider upgrading the intercooler.

7) MAP sensor will have to be upgraded....
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To hear turbo sound would help.

2450mb at med revs is not problem(*), blow-off sound is normal with exhaust mods/vnt map config (I hear it with downpipe only) and siren is very typical with these engines. Oil inside hoses is typical too (oil vapor recirculation).

I wouldn't uninstall heat shields, radiators-coolers and hoses won't be happy with manifold temps.

(*) EGR closed or exhaust mods without turbo remapping is dangerous, it cause overboost at low-med revs. Check boost.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 29 Old 07-01-18 Thread Starter
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What is the next best turbo with the least amount of modification to fit as I struggle to get much free time. The screeching noise I described is only my at part throttle also when the vanes chang the noise goes away, If I have some spare time today I will be checking the play in the turbo. Has anyone had a lot of turbo lag when installing a bigger intercooler?

Thanks
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Best solution with stock inlet pre turbo Turbo's : Turbo GT1756v 1.9 JTD 16v

Best solution of power, driveability Turbo's : Turbokit GTB2056v 1.9 JTD 16v

There is no noticeable lag with a bigger intercooler.
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(Post Link) post #8 of 29 Old 07-01-18 Thread Starter
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Ahh cool I thought the exhaust manifolds were one casting with the turbo exhaust side cast with the rest of the manifold?

I know my turbo is dying but over the last few days the car has seemed to be not as fast/eager as it was, could someone look at my log, I took the car and gave it a full throttle run up to 100mph, intake temperatures are high, and the car seems to be overboosting. Any advice? also I will be buying a new intercooler just a quick question are the inlet and outlet 50mm diameter? maybe the turbo has sticky vanes?

Edit: Is it only Opel that uses the one cast exhaust manifold, meaning my Fiat Bravo has the detachable version?
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Last edited by Walshy155; 07-01-18 at 18:23.
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I guess that boost numbers are in psi?

You have a lot of overboost, that is not safe for the turbo on the long run.
You need to adjust your VNT maps.
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I guess that boost numbers are in psi?

You have a lot of overboost, that is not safe for the turbo on the long run.
You need to adjust your VNT maps.
Thanks for the help, am I likely to loose much power?

Also after recent inspection of the engine bay, I may think the MAF need a cleaning, I will also check logs of the MAF when I have some more spare time

Last edited by Walshy155; 07-01-18 at 19:37.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshy155 View Post
Ahh cool I thought the exhaust manifolds were one casting with the turbo exhaust side cast with the rest of the manifold?

I know my turbo is dying but over the last few days the car has seemed to be not as fast/eager as it was, could someone look at my log, I took the car and gave it a full throttle run up to 100mph, intake temperatures are high, and the car seems to be overboosting. Any advice? also I will be buying a new intercooler just a quick question are the inlet and outlet 50mm diameter? maybe the turbo has sticky vanes?

Edit: Is it only Opel that uses the one cast exhaust manifold, meaning my Fiat Bravo has the detachable version?
depends.. is your maf below your battery ? detachable turbo

is it near the right headlight? complete cast manifold.


I have a nice upgrade for sale if youre interested . With a hybrid gt2256v turbo , protoxide manifold and a long bigger downpipe (for 156 , not sure how it will fit on a bravo)
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(Post Link) post #12 of 29 Old 08-01-18 Thread Starter
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My MAF is under the battery with the airbox near right headlight but underneath the battery tray, I will be cleaning this and the MAP to see if it cures the overboosting, I will also be cleaning the vanes in the turbo also, I will check logs of boost again and reduce VNT map to suit
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Fiat Bravo has the detachable manifold, same as Alfa 147-156-GT.
Only the turbo inlet is different, because of a different airbox position regards to the turbo.
As for the turbo options, agreed with crossshot, for a plug&play solution, a GT1756v/GT1752v is a good choice, but for ultimate power with fast spoolup a full GTB turbokit is better, but that needs a few other mods and has a different price tag.

Regarding overboost; cleaning map and MAF will not solve it, but cleaning the VNT mechanism inside the turbo might if it is sticky. You can quite easily check that without removing the turbo.

147 JTDm 16v - GTB2060v - 329 hp/578 Nm
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(Post Link) post #14 of 29 Old 09-01-18 Thread Starter
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Thank you JS JTD, I have checked the actuator on the turbo it moves freely, but obviously fighting the vacuum to move it, with regard to the turbochargers you mentioned, which one is more commonly found? I can then start having a look at breaker yards or eBay. And they won't have to worry about a failing turbo if I get an upgrade one.

Thanks
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The GT1756V or GT1752V is a hybrid turbo. You don't found such a turbo on ebay for a JTD.
You need a GT1749V (part number 55214063) and upgrade it to GT1756V or GT1752V.

And the GTB2056V is not an easy going as you think. It needs a lot of modifications. Compressor housing, pre turbo inlet, airbox for bigger maf, downppipe, exhaust manifold and oil lines.

Small impressions, to fit a GTB on and 8V JTD - its a lot of work! Fiat Stilo Turboumbau // GTB2056V
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(Post Link) post #16 of 29 Old 10-01-18 Thread Starter
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I think the best thing to do at the moment is drive the car and when the turbo fails turn it into hybrid then or buy Gt2256?

If possible also if somebody could look at my ECU file I'd be very grateful
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Whats your target? Good driveability or max. power?

The GT2256V is a bad choice...
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I'm aiming about 225 horsepower or thereabouts. The map on my car now is about 200 but im unsure as I have not yet been to a dyno to check. Id like most of the power in the higher rev range, I'd like to raise the limiter also but that will be of no benefit? Id like the power in the high revs as I think it will be easier for the transmission to cope with as it's already spinning at speed so the rotational torque isnt as stressful to the gearbox and clutch. At low RPM damage and clutch slip is more likely occur. Obviously the reliability of this car is not the engine really, it's the gearbox being an M32, I enjoy this car so will be keeping it and due to this I'm looking after it, I have had faster cars but I enjoy this a lot.

If somebody is willing to revise my ECU file I'll be glad to pay them...as the car is overboosting and I'm sure a little more power can be achieved without altering boost pressure.

Thanks again
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Upload them somewhere and I will take a look...
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(Post Link) post #20 of 29 Old 10-01-18 Thread Starter
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I will upload 2, one is more aggressive than the other in high rpm. Both were done by me and a friend although we are just beginning in the world of modifying data in the ECU, they are probably bad maps, any advice on them would be very good...

https://ufile.io/ivi4e

Thanks
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(Post Link) post #21 of 29 Old 12-01-18 Thread Starter
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Sorry to double post but I'm pretty sure the VNT maps are wrong the car is boosting on idle and I can manually pull the actuator and it stops boosting...any tips on how to re calibrate the VNT maps

Thanks
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You need to do logs. VNT tuning is the hardest work and your exhaust mods + stage1 needs full vnt map redone. If you want to start with something easy try this:

- See two vnt maps (y axis) 1000-5000 rpm and (x axis) 500-7000 mm3
- copy 1500 rpm row to 1000-1250 rpm
- 1500-5000 rpm all rows -5%

It'll reduce overboost at low/med rpm and should work at high rpm as first reliability fix. Log again and see how it works.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshy155 View Post
I will upload 2, one is more aggressive than the other in high rpm. Both were done by me and a friend although we are just beginning in the world of modifying data in the ECU, they are probably bad maps, any advice on them would be very good...

https://ufile.io/ivi4e

Thanks
Your "basic tune" is just injection duration increase 6%, and a basically 5% higher boost everywhere.
The end result of this is 160HP maybe 165HP... tuning box style, useless...

The "aggressive tune" is a bit better, but also a bit crazy...
Fuel injection is set quite high, and then on top of that you have 9% injection duration increase.
SOI maps are increased by 10%?
Boost is lower than in "basic tune"?!?
And you haven't touched the VNT maps at all.

Quote:
- See two vnt maps (y axis) 1000-5000 rpm and (x axis) 500-7000 mm3
- copy 1500 rpm row to 1000-1250 rpm
- 1500-5000 rpm all rows -5%
This is not how you "tune" VNT maps...
You must make logs of boost, desired boost and VNT %, then check where you have too high boost, and reduce VNT maps in those areas...
Adjusting "all rows" by 5% is just monkey business.
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This is not how you "tune" VNT maps...
You must make logs
Really?

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You need to do logs. VNT tuning is the hardest work and your exhaust mods + stage1 needs full vnt map redone.
Oh, It's that I said
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(Post Link) post #25 of 29 Old 13-01-18 Thread Starter
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Okay, will someone be able to completely retune the map for me, I'm obviously willing to pay...I think it will be better if an experienced tuner here can do the map for me

Also my friend with the laptop and software has gone away to work for a while now, unexpectedly which is unfortunate for me...

Anybody?

Last edited by Walshy155; 14-01-18 at 19:38.
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