Q4 Guide in 147\156\GT for Noobs - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

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(Post Link) post #1 of 101 Old 26-02-17 Thread Starter
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Q4 Guide in 147\156\GT for Noobs

Hello guys.

I have Alfa Romeo GT and I install TBi engine (940A1000 or 939B1000) to it with Q4 drivetrain from CrossWagon.

I have many skills for it and i can help anybody to do same without problem. Donating to me is allowed, becouse i spend all to Alfa and didnt have money to food

Yes, it little hard, but 95% are bolt-on solution.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 101 Old 26-02-17 Thread Starter
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Fist of all, better start from rear suspension and after that - front.
Subframe and arms, much better than FWD:
https://a.d-cd.net/4aa6abas-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/21f929es-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/d3063bas-480.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/91f929es-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/73063bas-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/2b063bas-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/bb063bas-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/89babbas-480.jpg

Rear hubs are similar like on Lancia Delta Integrale:
https://a.d-cd.net/d5e5216s-960.jpg
https://a.d-cd.net/de5216s-960.jpg

Axle shafts with different lenght:
https://a.d-cd.net/10cff66s-960.jpg
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(Post Link) post #3 of 101 Old 26-02-17 Thread Starter
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This mount for propshaft.
I weld it.
This it 3% of non-bolt-on stuff.
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Last edited by acab; 26-02-17 at 21:19.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 101 Old 26-02-17 Thread Starter
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Subframes are similar like on Alfa 155 Q4.
But i think better.
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Can You list different parts you need from other cars to do this?
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(Post Link) post #6 of 101 Old 28-02-17 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicer View Post
Can You list different parts you need from other cars to do this?
you need only alfa 156 crosswagon)
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Is the engine already in the car?
Does the Q4 Gearbox fit without any adapters?
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it should fit fine as the tbi is 1.6jtd based.

can you drive the car on stock height using al these q4 parts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerd View Post
it should fit fine as the tbi is 1.6jtd based.

can you drive the car on stock height using al these q4 parts?
JTD based?
What?!

Did they reuse the basic block design?
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you do realise the JTD and TS/JTS/TBi engines were developped together, don't you? They're in essence the same
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This is hardcore- and expertly done

Terrific photos!
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(Post Link) post #12 of 101 Old 21-03-17 Thread Starter
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CrossWagon gearbox are same as on Integrale and 155 Q4. But with own transfer.
And i know much people, who fit 20VT with that gearbox.
TBi is same engine.
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looking for help

Quote:
Originally Posted by acab View Post
CrossWagon gearbox are same as on Integrale and 155 Q4. But with own transfer.
And i know much people, who fit 20VT with that gearbox.
TBi is same engine.
hi!!
sorry to bother but i'm looking for help..
i wrote a post some months ago looking for info about the same topic.

i'm in for a big and beautifull project that i want to start but there is no info to be sure to invest all the money i need to invest on it..

i wanted to buy a busso v6 and fit the q4 system (always on a 156) but as far as i know right now can't be done.. and this is a real shame for me...
cause i'm dreaming on lowered and widened crosswagon with a busso in it that is actually a q4.

i also figure it out that busso block can't fit the gearbox cause the transfer box hit the oil filter and other parts of the block... but there is no picture all over internet to confirm that only people saying this.

look like the q4 gearbox is the same as the busso gearbox.. (as far as my research) but someone here on the forum says is not the same...

there is no picture all over internet about bell housing and transfer box of the q4 to guess if actually will fit a busso engine

for the little i manage to find the oil filter and block on a v6 3.0 looks quite good as far as cleareance for the transfer box... don't know what to think! hope you can help me with your comment.

there is also a big problem about rear suspension that you may know with your experience..
on the internet there is NO picture about rear suspesnion on the crosswagon..
you can buy all kind of coilovers for a standard 156\gta whatever... but there is no coilover\adjustable ride high suspension for crosswagon on the all net!!
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The Bell housing is made to fit the Diesel / TBi / TS block, not the V6. If you can make a belhouse adaptor you could perhaps make it fit from that point of view.

I did the other way around - make a 6 speed gearbox from a diesel (with 2.5 internals) fit the TS block - I had to change the half shaft a lot, cut off the sump extension and have it welded shut. Changed to the diesel side shafts. I'm telling this story to paint a picture - not high jack - It is a LOT of work, but doable...
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(Post Link) post #15 of 101 Old 19-04-17 Thread Starter
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Little modify JTD Q4 oil sump for fitting TBi oil pump feed.

https://pp.userapi.com/c636429/v6364...j54NEAJitw.jpg

Alfa TBi engine and JTD oil sump. All fit and fine.

https://pp.userapi.com/c636429/v6364...Dm-ATZLSss.jpg

Alfa TBi engine and JTD Q4 gearbox without transfer.

https://pp.userapi.com/c636429/v6364...azbA_De4QM.jpg

As you see - all fine. But need to make some changes.
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got it... so.. if i need to make it more simple i need to go with the 2.0 t.s. more straight forward than doing a v6...

the ecu of the 2.0 t.s. can manage a supercharged application??

anybody knows the read diff and front diff of the 156 q4 are LSD or open diff???
where can i find info on how to change the balance of power distribution on the rear and front?

this morning i got lucky and manage to find a 156 crosswagon in the parking lot... owner wasn't there.. i had a look below and in fact looks plug and play..

i couldn't figure it out if the rear suspension is different comparing with a standard 156 rear suspension..
i got scared that the owner could come and i didn't take anypicture.. as far as i could remember on mine 156 the shocks look the same... but i'm not sure...
anybody knows anything about it???

the back is very high!! exhaust and diff hang pretty low.. i guess if is possible to install a lowered suspension diff need protection...

please.. if somebody knows anything about the rear suspension would be great!!!

this car today looked very strange!! the front was very low... but the rear pretty high!! it wasn't leveled at all...


p.s. if i'm going to O.T. please tell me..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giulio87 View Post
the ecu of the 2.0 t.s. can manage a supercharged application??
It depends on how high you want to boost - I found the injectors ran 100% at 0.3 bar boost, any higher and you need to increase the fuel pressure or bigger injectors, and then remap for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by giulio87 View Post
anybody knows the read diff and front diff of the 156 q4 are LSD or open diff???
where can i find info on how to change the balance of power distribution on the rear and front?
Center diff is torsen type diff and it manages the front / rear torque split - you cannot change the split ratios in a torsen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giulio87 View Post
i couldn't figure it out if the rear suspension is different comparing with a standard 156 rear suspension..
i got scared that the owner could come and i didn't take anypicture.. as far as i could remember on mine 156 the shocks look the same... but i'm not sure...
anybody knows anything about it???
Well the OP posted a lot of pictures, you can see it is roughly the same McPherson setup so chances are you can swap springs around. Remember there was also a Q4 Sportwagon, not only the crosswagon - its spring / dampers are designed for lower ride height
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hi thanks for the reply.

do you know if the ecu can be remapped to allow fine refulation after s.c. conversion? like timing?

i read here a guy who translate posts from czech republic i belieave who converted a 147 gta to q4 and manage to change the power distribution putting a 60% on the rear... is difficult to find further information about it.

a standard 156 q4 system what distribution it has? difficult to find info on this too!..

i think i will do a specific thread about this project...
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Standard on the crosswagon it is 58% to rear (basically 60%)
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is it known how much torque the gearbox and the clutch can handle?
the rear diff is a standard open type or a torsen too?
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Hijacking this thread.... could a 1.75tbi be fitted to a 156? How hard compared to a 20v turbo conversion?
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The engine bay layout of the 156 / GT and 147 are the same, hence this thread heading mentions all... shape and size of the 1.75 TBi motor is the same as the JTDm and TS motors, so fit should be easier than 20V or at most the same effort.
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I think the wiring is going to be the hardest part.
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