My Laptop's Died...... - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
The Technology Section A place to discuss technology & gadgets.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 33 Old 26-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

My Laptop's Died......

My classic XPS M1710, has been giving some trouble for a couple of days, would work fine then just shut down with a BSOD, to quick to read.

Then booting up became troublesome, weird lines on the DELL screen and then odd artifacts on the Windows logo, then crash (BSOD) and reboot.

Loaded up fine in SAFE MODE, and the BIOS diagnostics came back OK.

So, after a little online research, bit the bullet and decided the graphics card was poorly.

Pulled the laptop apart, and removed the GPU (NVIDIA Geforce GTX 7950) and associated hardware.

Removed all the heatsinks, foam pads, thermal paste, etc. and popped it into a pre-warmed oven at 180 degrees C.

Left it to bake for 20 minutes and then rest until cool.

Put all the bits back together and lo and behold it's now working. Seems that there's some weakness in the (lead-free) solder and after a time it breaks down and causes problems.....a bit of baking re-aligns everything and you're good to go, until the next time.

...if wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets...
milowokie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Broken again...
AO Platinum Member
 
GhostyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Side O The Pennines
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 25,672
That's just nuts

Kinda reminds me of when I used to gave to drop computers from a height onto a soft surface (like my bed) to re-bed chips in the motherboard.
GhostyDog is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 33 Old 26-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

Or the Atari twist to do the same.

Guess you used to drop STs too?

No such trouble with my Amiga (still working, bought new in 1989 £399, 2nd floppy drive and 512kb memory expansion).
milowokie is offline  
Status: Broken again...
AO Platinum Member
 
GhostyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Side O The Pennines
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 25,672
It was Amiga's we did the drop fix on
GhostyDog is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 33 Old 26-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

Mine must've been the good one then, all the college STs needed a twist from time to time....the BBCs and 380Zs were more robust.

The year after I left they got some PCs (XTs) in.....
milowokie is offline  
spx
Status: -
AO Member
 
spx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: North Lanarkshire
Posts: 418
This happened to an XPS laptop a friend had. Think it was a m1330 or something like that. Read online about heating the motherboard to rejoin the solder / print circuit but never tried it. Heard it can be a bit hit and miss though with limited results / life span.

I'm not wanting to spoil your moment, more just in case you need to back stuff up.
spx is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 33 Old 27-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

No stuff to backup. Just a browsing PC. Everything's on my desktop and streams to the lappy, or is on a portable HDD.
milowokie is offline  
Status: think I've found the issue...
AO Member
 
andye159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 107

Member car:

Focus 1.6 Diesel

:O

Brave! Think I may have tried the driver first!

But glad it worked!
andye159 is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
Hi mate,

Common problem on laptops with good graphics cards unfortunately. They dont last very long.

Basically the fan/heatsink gets blocked partially or completely in a couple of years raising the already high temperatures of the graphics card.

Eventually the temperature gets so hot that the solder actually starts to melt/crack on joints at the back of the ball grid array (BGA)

All you have done is basically pushed the chip back onto the BGA contacts temporarily - It will have the fault again very soon.

You will see people offering 'Reflowing' where they basically heat up the chip to the point where the solter on the BGA melts back together - This never works and you might be able to get another 4 weeks before it happens again.

Other places offer 'BGA Reballing' where the chip is heated up and with infra-red removed. The old solder is removed from the BGA and new 'balls' are applied using very specialist tools and stencils. The chip is then refitted using infra-red.

This doesnt work either - trust me! I dont know why, in theory it should and the videos on youtube are in depth and facinating (check them out). It just doesnt work! You might be able to get another 6 months to a year out of the laptop but most of the ones I have had done failed almost immediately or within the 12 month warranty making it a complete waste of time.

I have tried 3 companies, one of them is the biggest in the UK who actually owes me £1500 in failure refunds.

I now ONLY offer full motherboard replacements as this is the only reliable way to fix them.

2002 156 Selespeed Sportwagon|Koni FSD Dampers|Eibach Pro Springs|Fully Powerflexed Front & Rear|Eibach Sports Stabiliser ARB's|Lightweight Flywheel|Lighweight Crank Pulley|Colombo & Bariani Cams|Ported by Peak Alfa|Custom Remap by Gus|Wiechers Aluminium Strut Brace|GTA Uprights & Brembo 330mm Conversion|276mm GTA Rear's|GTA Steering Rack |Custom K&N Intake Pipe & Induction|Brand new Gearbox/Actuator|Quaife LSD|CF2 Decat Manifolds|Supersprint Centre Section|CSC Duplex Exhaust|GTA Interior
Laptop_Matt is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 33 Old 27-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

Quote:
Originally Posted by andye159 View Post
:O

Brave! Think I may have tried the driver first!

But glad it worked!
Nowt to lose, it's a 5 year old laptop (according to the motherboard).

Matt, well it's gone from working to not working (except in Safe Mode) and after a "bake" works again.

Did clean everything out whilst it was apart, it wasn't too dusty or had heatsink fins filled with baked on fluff. Now running a GPU temp application as well as CPU temp, (73 for GPU and 47 44 for the CPU cores) see how it goes, but will be on the look at for a new card.

Trouble is they cost about 1/2 the price of a new, similar spec, laptop.
milowokie is offline  
Status: Knackered
AO Silver Member
 
stan laurel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Preston
County: Lancashire
Posts: 4,510
Garage

Member car:

159 2.4 Ti

Quote:
Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
Nowt to lose, it's a 5 year old laptop (according to the motherboard).

Matt, well it's gone from working to not working (except in Safe Mode) and after a "bake" works again.

Did clean everything out whilst it was apart, it wasn't too dusty or had heatsink fins filled with baked on fluff. Now running a GPU temp application as well as CPU temp, (73 for GPU and 47 44 for the CPU cores) see how it goes, but will be on the look at for a new card.

Trouble is they cost about 1/2 the price of a new, similar spec, laptop.

raise it off the surface, eg lift it up with a couple of book on each edge...that should help the air-flow underneath and keep it going a bit longer.

those temps (74 for gpu, etc) dont seem fatal, but it does sound like the card is having a hard time.

if you cleaned all the fans, it might be worth looking at a similar spec recon model
stan laurel is offline  
Status: Broken again...
AO Platinum Member
 
GhostyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Side O The Pennines
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 25,672
Mr laptop Matt,

Have you seen any issues with dell latitude xt2?

Cheers

Sean
GhostyDog is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyDog View Post
Mr laptop Matt,

Have you seen any issues with dell latitude xt2?

Cheers

Sean
Nah Latitudes are business laptops and made to a much higher standard.

I specialise in Dell Latitudes, HP Compaq ProBooks & EliteBooks, Lenovo ThinkPads and Toshiba Tecras as these are desiged and built well.
Laptop_Matt is offline  
Status: Broken again...
AO Platinum Member
 
GhostyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Side O The Pennines
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 25,672
Good, I have an XT2 and a D630, both have been brilliant.
GhostyDog is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
Nowt to lose, it's a 5 year old laptop (according to the motherboard).

Matt, well it's gone from working to not working (except in Safe Mode) and after a "bake" works again.

Did clean everything out whilst it was apart, it wasn't too dusty or had heatsink fins filled with baked on fluff. Now running a GPU temp application as well as CPU temp, (73 for GPU and 47 44 for the CPU cores) see how it goes, but will be on the look at for a new card.

Trouble is they cost about 1/2 the price of a new, similar spec, laptop.
Ive only just realised that you 'baked' it lol.

Well done, let me know how long it lasts.

This is what most dodgy computer shops do, either that or blow torch the chip!!

The problem you have is that the lead free solder has a higher melting point apparently of 240degrees and so the oven might not have been hot enough.

What I dont understand is if it has a higher melting point than the standard leaded solder of 180 degrees why is cracking/melting due to a chip getting to 100-120 degrees??
Laptop_Matt is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyDog View Post
Good, I have an XT2 and a D630, both have been brilliant.
I think the D620/630 is my favourite Dell laptop its built like a brick sh*t house with its metal lid and case. Im going to drive my Alfa over one as an advert lol
Laptop_Matt is offline  
Status: think I've found the issue...
AO Member
 
andye159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 107

Member car:

Focus 1.6 Diesel

The D630 is awesome. We've SSDd and 8GB RAMd ours at work, and they stand up very well next to the newer models.

Sorry - sidetrack!
andye159 is offline  
Status: -
Unregistered
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Lancashire
Posts: 57,288
Scott, I'm with Matt the only way you can reflow 99c solder is to heat it to 260 degrees c and if you exposed the probimer ink on the board to any where near that it would breakdown completely
Happy Man is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 33 Old 28-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

A good point,

however,

it didn't work, and now it does.
milowokie is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
You can also make them work for a while by firmly pressing on the chip
Laptop_Matt is offline  
Status: -
Unregistered
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Lancashire
Posts: 57,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
A good point,

however,

it didn't work, and now it does.
I can well believe it mate

I used to make PCB's for a living, was just letting you know it might not last very long
Happy Man is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 33 Old 28-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laptop_Matt View Post
You can also make them work for a while by firmly pressing on the chip
Should've tried that to save on electric. Good job my pie didn't burst and leak gravy onto the card.
milowokie is offline  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,047
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
Should've tried that to save on electric. Good job my pie didn't burst and leak gravy onto the card.
Haha!

Saving energy and all that, good on you.
Laptop_Matt is offline  
(Post Link) post #24 of 33 Old 25-11-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

It's baking time again,

not the laptop GPU that's still going strong but my five year old PS3 which developed the YLOD.

All apart and cleaned up, old thermal paste off and ready to put the new stuff on and reassemble.

Nothing to lose with a quick journey to the oven, the cost of repairs are not far off the cost of a new one with warranty.........
milowokie is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 33 Old 25-11-12 Thread Starter
Status: pa taket
AO Platinum Member
 
milowokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 22,757

Member car:

Jaguar XJR V8

Fat PS3 in bits

note the cruddy looking paste on the big silver chips.

Fat PS3 MoBo with thermal paste on CPU and GPU removed


MoBo After Baking

Fingers crossed.
milowokie is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Off Topic Section > The Technology Section

Tags
died , laptop

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome