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Alfetta GT Turbo

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alfetta turbo
3K views 24 replies 11 participants last post by  arcbc88 
#1 ·
Please someone talk me out of this idea. I've found an Alfa 75 turbo engine, its a 1.8, just like the 1.8 in my Alfetta, but has fuel injection and an extra 30% power. I have a notion to make a modern turbodelta. I realise this is total madness, but I just can't help myself. I must be sick in the head, I know it will likely break the transaxle, the radiator won't take the heat, and the turbo wil no doubt burn the new paint off the bonnet and boil the brake fluid, but I want it WANT IT.
 
#6 ·
I can feel a purchase coming on. Better do it before october 31, as after that no doubt there will be duty+vat+hassle+delay.
I am now thinking that the oil pan can have an oil return adaptor plate bolted on the side, I don't really need the turbo casting one. Plus it will be a nice ornament for the two years or so it will take me to get a 'roundtuit' .:0
 
#7 ·
Other than the clutch, the transaxle was fundamentally the same, so that will be fine. I don’t think the V6 rad was any bigger. So that will be fine. Add an oil cooler if you’re worried. You will probably cook the front brakes if you use it hard - they are absolutely tiny when compared to modern cars.

Do it. And make it a 2 litre while you’re in there.... :)
 
#10 ·
Oh, I've stumbled across a twinspark engine for sale in Italy, I'm thinking this might be easier, and cheaper all round. But how do I make sure I don;t get ripped-off ? I can imagine by money goes into a foreign bank account and then .. zip. nothing. Any ideas? Can PayPal help ? is there an agent I can use?
 
#12 ·
So I'm just about to try to transfer some money for the 1.8 Turbo, when I get an email with someone offering me a 2.0 Twinspark ,, argghhh. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if I can use my exisiting 1975 1.8 block and transfer the internals of the 1985 1.8T - since the capacity and engine number are the same, there is no need to do any DVLA paperwork...
 
#13 ·
I bought a TS engine from Greece and paid Paypal without issue. Paypal have successfully come into bat for me with a few disputes with commercial vendors but I dont know how it would go against a private account holder. anyway, better than no fallback.

TS is great in a 105 as a sort of wannabe GTA but in an Alfetta, a turbo sounds more exciting while still of historical relevance. It will be a more complicated/expensive conversion however and think about insurance - nobody is going to dyno your car after an accident to check the exact power of a modified engine, but a turbo is pretty hard to miss.....
 
#14 ·
I've decided to go TS after all. Mainly due to lack of time, as I believe it will be easier and quicker to fit a TS that comes complete with wiring loom, compared to having to make my own loom, which might be fun, but will take forever . I've driven many miles behind a TS getting a solid 31mpg, they have incredible low end torque. I even replaced the head gasket on one with 160k on it, where the liners had no sign of wear. Contact me if you need/want a Turbo as I know a guy in Germany who has two of them, and I need to make amends since I backed out the deal at the last minute, I'd like to find him a new buyer.
-Hazel
 
#15 ·
I think you have made the correct decision!

The turbo will require quite a bit of bespoke fettling (ie £££) to set it up and get it running properly and even then, you will have the problem of heat.

I think a decent spec twinspark gives you better bang for your buck.

Out of interest, how much was the 75 turbo engine going for and what did it include/exclude - inlet, exhaust manifolds, wiring harness, etc?
 
#16 ·
Alfahaze, the 1.8 engine was the best of the lot...1.3, 1.6, 2.0 and with the original cams, not those supplied to england! It was also a very balanced package with the brakes, suspension and transmission and had low unsprung weight and balanced weight distribution. The original GT was also the rarest and coolest with many features the later cars did not have so if it is a good car then i would say keep what you have.

The 1.8 engine can be tuned to 140hp easily retaining the 40 Carburettors with some head work and with 45s can go to 170hp+ with many tuners in england and europe specialising in it since it was an evolution of the 105 series engine and even have injection if required.

YEah the twinspark engine from the 75 is a good engine, but the engine in the 75 1.8 was a more rev happy and passionate engine, quite different from the alfetta 1,8 in head design and cams used.
The 75 twinspark had ventilated front brakes, a beefier propshaft and gearbox and an lsd combined to balance the whole package so why not get one of those already with everything you need there.

the alfetta turbodelta had lots of issues and became better with the 75 turbo and evoluzione but modern turbo cars are much better in performance.
 
#18 ·
...The original GT was also the rarest and coolest with many features the later cars did not have so if it is a good car then i would say keep what you have...
It is rare-ish, not sure if it is the coolest or most desirable, I'd say these versions are the gtv8, autodelta, SA3.0, calloway, or the Chapparal. Personally I would prefer a 1982 gtv6 with magnesium wheels and air con, as that is the spec of my first car, so has a special place in my heart. The alfetta GT is cool though, and I don't need to go fast these days, but I'd swap it in a heart beat for an 82 gtv6.
 
#19 ·
Hello Arguti maybe you have the red one bought in France few years ago. The GTV turbodelta used a KKK turbo which is not the best at spooling up or in terms of reliability. It also lacks an intercooler, the manifold is very crude and heavy, and the fuel supply is performed by a pair of Dellortos that is not as precise as injection and not easy to alter or setup.

Materazzi who developed the turbo engines of Lancia and Ferrari, notably for the 288 GTO and F40, made use of the then under contract the KKK turbo for the 208 Turbo of 1982 but switched to the Japanses IHI turbos for the 288 in 1983 with twin Behr intercoolers before it came out in 1984 after comparing both in design and build quality. The IHI's spooled up much faster and were produced with attention and fine tolerances. He then switched to a single IHI turbo and Behr intercooler for the GTB turbo of 1985/6 to superior effect. All these cars had injection and the 288 had bespoke digital electronic injection to better meter fuel.

The other aspect of the GTV turbodelta is that whilst this turbo was put in place no other alteration was made to braking or transmission or suspension (with option of stiffer rear springs and stiffer spica dampers). The increased torque at low revs puts added strain on the transmission couplings and gearbox and also the brakes but it was up to the owner to try to strengthen or improve them. This is Alfas way in not developing products.

It is rare-ish, not sure if it is the coolest or most desirable, I'd say these versions are the gtv8, autodelta, SA3.0, calloway, or the Chapparal. Personally I would prefer a 1982 gtv6 with magnesium wheels and air con, as that is the spec of my first car, so has a special place in my heart. The alfetta GT is cool though, and I don't need to go fast these days, but I'd swap it in a heart beat for an 82 gtv6.
The Alfetta GTV6 production number is 22,500. The Alfetta GT 1.8/1800 was 21,948 and many of these were not properly cared for unlike the GTV6 so far fewer exist today. THe initial GT 1.8 had a different front grille and had a body coloured fuel flap covering the fuel cap unlike all other GT/GTVs which had an exposed plastic fuel cap. The interior of the intial GT was also differently trimmed with a wooden steering wheel. Mechanically the initial 1.8 had more sporting non emission 10548 cams designed for that engine (but not available in export markets or after 1976) as standard and also had the option of the 20% ZF limited slip differential in 1974/5 which was not again available on a production Alfetta GTV/GTV6 again. The Alfa 75 twinspark and 3.0 were the next production cars to intorduce them.
All the Alfetta GTVs are underrated and great roads cars. However the initial 1.8 had the best 4 cylinder engine and had 50/50 weight distribution with low unsprung weight and rak and pinion steering unlike the 105 it replaced.
THe GTV6 is a great sounding car and had a reliable engine, great for touring freeways at high speed across continents. However as a sports car its engine weight made it much more nose heavy and a successful period racer in England mentioned substantial adjustments had to be made to lower the engine to make it remotely competitive on track. It also had to my eyes less attractive plastic fenders/bumpers and less appealing rear light design compared to the original with inferior paint quality also.
The CAlloway Alfetta twin turbos were made in very small numbers in the USA and were not Alfa approved.
Alfa ROmeo did not have the money to develop the Alfetta GTV and as one ex Alfa Romeo engineer pointed out in an interview his team lamented the fact it was not replace with a car on a new platform since they were all derivations of the same alfetta chassis developed in the late 60s and launched in 1972. Still a great car and head and shoulders above its period peers in my opinion,
 
#21 ·
Arguti, yes nice buy in Paris, I nearly bought a turbodelta in 2000, but I thought I am not going to race it so for touring a normal gt/gtv would be better. Pity about your 75 evoluzione but turbomotors in Milan has all the necessary turbo parts as I am sure you are aware. I would recommend making a tubular manifold in inconel, much lighter and better heat resistance than steel.

No I have never driven a south african gtv6 but those single choke dellorto carburettors are reputedly very difficult to setup and stay tuned. Again they suffer from having too much weight up front, with the head too high in the engine bay. Jon Dooley wrote a very thorough article in the AROC magazine explaining his experience with the gtv6 and he also owned a GTV6 3.0. He said the front suspension of the alfetta GTV6 was very bad, but this is because in period lowering the car put the centre of gravity below ground and the Alfa solution of longer uprights as fitted to the ES30 SZ were not used at that time.
The gtv6 3.0 was a South African built and designed Alfa sanctioned by Alfa Milan but was purely a homologation model, without radical development of the brakes, suspension or transmission which the cars that raced did have.
As a former Alfa Milan engineer explained in an interview the Alfetta GT/GTV6 platform should have been replaced in the early 1980s since it was built on the alfetta platform of 1972, itself projected in the late 1960s. Alfa should have had an Autosport division like the M division in BMW that sold more performance oriented cars and which had a dedicated team to sell the product complete with not only a more powerful engine but better and more performance oriented suspension, braking and transmission too!
As regards alfettas I like the very first GT and the last transaxle Alfam the ES30 SZ but those had a big failing in doing away with the front torsion bars, since the strengthened front suspension pickup points and coilovers did not mitigate their loss at all on track as explained to me by RSR.
 
#23 ·
I did speak to Turbomotors but they were unable to help- eventually had it welded up through Jim Stokes workshops - I also spoke to Jon Dooley at the time.

I have two South African GTV6 3.0s (one road and one trackday/race setup) and both are running on RSR suspension which I vastly prefer to the standard factory setup.
 
#24 ·
Duemila...yeah Jon Dooley is still about and writes articles for the AROC magazine still.
The SZ was very rushed, from idea to prototype in a just under 2 years, and was basically a 75 coupe (shown on the alfa book on the SZ) that did not have the time to develop everything well enough. THe rose joint suspension and front coilovers and stiffened chassis and lenghened front uprights as stated in my previous mail did not make up for the omission of the torsion bars on the regular 75, and that is just regarding suspension. The car had a steel chassis that could rust underneath the plastic/fibreglass which itself does not hold up well if exposed to summer heat or winter cold and the car was very underpowered from the beginning, and denied the 24v double cam per bank v6 already ready. Having said that the SZ is an excellent basis for ironing out the many flaws it has and so has the potential to be an excellent endurance or track car, with the necessary work being carried out, again confirmed by RSR.
 
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