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Scottish Italian Car Day
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pepe146
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26-05-13
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Scottish Italian Car Day - bring along your Italian car, historic, classic, modern, retro or Italian based kit car. The event is set in the beautiful grounds of the National Trust for Scotlandís Hill of Tarvit Mansion House & Garden, Cupar Fife KY15 5PB. 11.00am to 4.00pm 26th May 2013. For early booking and discounted entry fees go to www.nts.org.uk. Join us for a fantastic family day where everyone is welcome

Scottish Italian Car Day
Calendar: Event Calendar
pepe146
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26-05-13
*The times shown may change, depending on DST settings
Scottish Italian Car Day - bring along your Italian car, historic, classic, modern, retro or Italian based kit car. The event is set in the beautiful grounds of the National Trust for Scotlandís Hill of Tarvit Mansion House & Garden, Cupar Fife KY15 5PB. 11.00am to 4.00pm 26th May 2013. For early booking and discounted entry fees go to www.nts.org.uk. Join us for a fantastic family day where everyone is welcome
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dinomito
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I've moved this into the South Scotland lounge to increase visibility of what will surely be another cracking SAROC event!
Get your RSVP in then folks.
 
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We will be, and we will be happy to be attending on the day but I have to ask on behalf of ourselves and those who have pondered the question in the passed two years but never asked, (and previously at the Craigtoun venue) Why, given that the public come to see our Italian cars do we have to pay the entry price at the same rate or, indeed at all? Surely there would be no family day out at Tarvit on that day if we weren't there! (yes I know there is a discounted price on the web site but that is available to all). We bring two Alfas' and four persons which costs £32....quite an expensive day out I think you might agree on top of everything else, petrol/diesel, lunch....Seriously Dinomito, I'm not complaining otherwise we wouldn't attend but, are we Italian car owners being exploited? I'm sure I will have plenty of negative responses on the forgone comments but I just had to put it out there!

Last edited by Alphataurus; 10-03-13 at 01:16.
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I shall put your comments to my colleagues on the SAROC committee.
 
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Thank's, the feed back will be interesting. It might be just me that thinks that way. I'm sure that a substantial discount can be negotiated for Italian car owners who are wishing to attend such events there by making them a more attractive prospect!
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An interesting and to some extent a valid point but I have to say a misunderstanding of what I believe SICD is all about.

The primary aim of SICD is to provide an opportunity for owners of Italian cars to congregate and enjoy our mutual interest in these brilliant pieces of engineering for which we all have a passion. In reality this could take place in a field – but we would still need to pay the farmer!

The fact that “members of the public” turn up and pay to look at our cars is a bonus - but let’s be honest, your 159 or my Giulietta is not really what they want to see – they are after Ferraris and Lambos! So to take the view that “we” are the show is not quite right.

Going back to the farmer’s field, yes costs for this type of event could be reduced but over the years there have been many suggestions (dare I say complaints!) that the event should take place somewhere more interesting! The requirement to come up with things for family members who aren’t actually interested in Alfas (yes, such people exist!!), is an on-going issue.

Some may remember Falkland – that really was a field – then we moved on to Craigtoun which was good until the Council basically closed it down. Now we have Hill of Tarvit and the bottom line is entry to SICD gives access to the whole property and if you are not a NTS member that would cost you £10 per adult. I agree it’s a lot but everything is expensive nowadays!

I have to say I look forward to SICD. Yes, I like showing my car off but I also like looking at all the other cars and chatting with their owners. I pay for the privilege but in the end I believe it all balances out. Bottom line is that if we Alfa, Fiat, Lancia owners didn’t pay to get in, it wouldn’t happen. Now if you were to turn-up in an Enzo or a Zonda you would probably get waved straight thru!

I think I should also add that although I enjoy being part of AO, in terms of major events “it” doesn’t actually do much. The “set-piece” events are left to AROC and they take the financial “hit” when things don’t go well so the money side is unfortunately very important. As an aside, you will note that this year there will probably be only one Knockhill track evening and this is as a direct consequence of the relatively poor attendances in the last few years. Your eyes would water at the price Knockhill charge and a basically amateur organisation such as AROC cannot absorb such loses over an extended time.

So in closing, I think that SICD gives all we Scottish Alfisiti a major opportunity (and maybe the only one if Hopetoun doesn’t happen this year) to get together and act like anoraks! There is no doubt it isn’t perfect and I would love to see a few changes but if it isn’t supported, then it will disappear and I think that would be a shame.
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I take on board all that you say but one flaw in your response is that there were few Ferraris' (one I think!) and no Lambos last year at Tarvit (I think they were all in Yorkshire) yet it was well attended, so I think it is down to "curiosity" to an extent that the public come to such events and for something to do with the Family on a Sunday. How many of them other than the enthusiast (I don't intend for that to sound derogatory) can tell a Ferrari from a Lambo or a Masserati, few I suspect! If all the people that attend for example, Tarvit were really Italian Car fans they would be driving Italian cars but clearly they don't. I just think that if the cost for such events was at least reduced for the owners they would be more attractive given that the enthusiast can attend four or five events during the summer. With all due respect, let me respond to your statement: "The primary aim of SICD is to provide an opportunity for owners of Italian cars to congregate and enjoy our mutual interest in these brilliant pieces of engineering" We can do that in a Tesco car park! Interesting debate that hopefully will go on and come to some sort of level ground.
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Thanks for that response Alfanano, I couldn't really have put it any better myself. Bottom line is that if it's not supported by us paying to get in then it simply won't happen.

If you want to take 2 cars (or more) then that's your decision Highway Star. I see you're point in asking that maybe one could be discounted. But we're all in the same boat here, and that's why I'll just be taking the GTV. The MiTo and the 145 can stay at home.
 
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I take on board all that you say but one flaw in your response is that there were few Ferraris' (one I think!) and no Lambos last year at Tarvit (I think they were all in Yorkshire) yet it was well attended, so I think it is down to "curiosity" to an extent that the public come to such events and for something to do with the Family on a Sunday. How many of them other than the enthusiast (I don't intend for that to sound derogatory) can tell a Ferrari from a Lambo or a Masserati, few I suspect! If all the people that attend for example, Tarvit were really Italian Car fans they would be driving Italian cars but clearly they don't. I just think that if the cost for such events was at least reduced for the owners they would be more attractive given that the enthusiast can attend four or five events during the summer. With all due respect, let me respond to your statement: "The primary aim of SICD is to provide an opportunity for owners of Italian cars to congregate and enjoy our mutual interest in these brilliant pieces of engineering" We can do that in a Tesco car park! Interesting debate that hopefully will go on and come to some sort of level ground.
I have to say a huge element in last year's completely unexpectedly massive attendance was the weather! I agree that a lot of people were curious to see the new venue and YES the reason it was staged at Hill of Tarvit was to encourage Italian car owners to bring their families along by providing something else for them to do.

A lot of people did turn-up in the HOPE of seeing exotica (and you don't need to be much of an enthusiast to tell the difference between an Enzo and a Fiat 500) and the disappointment of some of them was noted. The absence of such vehicles can be a problem but unfortunately their owners cannot be forced to attend - it is interesting that a significant proportion of them do not believe that they should pay an entrance fee as they certainly see themselves as part of the "show".

I note your point about the non-Italian car owners Ė but there are many people who like Italian cars but for whatever reason donít currently own one. I chatted to quite a few of them and you only have to have a look round this forum to see the number of AO members who donít actually have an Alfa.

Your final point about Tescoís car park is an option (well it isnít really, Tesco would throw you out eventually! ) and I alluded to that type of approach in my previous post. The event has been held in a field in the past and there is nothing to stop such an alternative being revisited in the future but AROC have got to todayís position purely as a result of feedback received from previous events.

I have to say that in my experience, last year was exceptional and shouldn't be used as benchmark. If this yearís weather is bad (and letís be honest that has a relatively high probability of occurrence in our part of the world) there will nothing like the number of non-Italian car owners and even the Italian cars will be down.

Anyway it will be interesting to see if AROC can come up with anything to address your concerns.
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All valid and interesting points. The debate will rear it's head in the future I'm sure! Hopefully we can all become known to each other at future meetings, possibly Tarvit (Maybe bring just one Alfa!!!) and touch on the subject once more in person........

"Maybe bring just one Alfa".....Just had a thought: There will still be the same number of bodies so it will still cost the same.......Curses!!!!!

Last edited by Alphataurus; 10-03-13 at 13:47.
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Mike, Graham,
I fully understand what you are saying and appreciate the cost of these events. I also agree that a venue with 'something to do' is far more desirable than a muddy feild or squatting is Tesco's car park (I'm all for supporting NTS and Scottish Heratage etc.). But I also see where the other's are comming from, Let's facce it AO are always the biggest attendees at these events, followed closley by the Fiat gang, however, the cost can be restrictive for people who bring their family along (I speak from my own experience here as well), Might it not be possible to have a maximum charge for entry (£15, or £20 per vehicle)?
At least that way people would be far more aware of what they would have to pay on the day and be able to budget for it better.

Anyway, I know this is the call of the AROC committee and not your own. And I appreciate it's these guys who put the effort in to organising this event, for which I for one am greatfull. As usuall, regardless of the AROC decision, If I can be there I will (although, this year I need to save some pennies to get some work done on the GT and the belts will need doing by the end of the year as well ).

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To change the subject, will we have another loving day polishing before we go?

Not that I'm obsessed with detailing the car or anything..
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Looking forward to this. Some fair points above as I can see both sides have a point. I felt last year that it was a great turnout and we were blessed with Mediterranean weather! The lack of supercars/exotica didn't bother me but I can see how that could be more of a draw for the public, especially as the location is more rural than the likes of Hopetoun.

I felt there was a missed opportunity for a further food/ice-cream/beer vendor as they would have made a killing in that heat and with numbers of folk. Do understand that it is NTS property and they won't wish external or too commercial businesses there.

However, I do agree that the pricing needs looking at. I left my family behind because I felt it was too expensive to bring them. I resent paying per person when we are all in the same car and we have NTS membership! Basically, our whole incentive for visiting is that admission is normally FREE for members. So why should I pay for two adults, two children and fuel etc. to arrive at a property that is giving all entrants free entry. My wife and kids aren't even that interested in cars so it becomes a needless expense.

I think they should encourage this event by having free or reduced entry for cars in the show and charge for the house as a separate attraction. Or offer a discount for existing NTS members. Otherwise the irony remains that people such as me are paying more to visit an NTS property as members than someone who isn't!

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To change the subject, will we have another loving day polishing before we go?

Not that I'm obsessed with detailing the car or anything..
Negotiations are at an early stage, but I'm hoping so.
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Scottish Italian Car Day

Hope its on a sunday so i can cone along this time

Edit: was meaning the wash and wax meeting before it
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"I felt there was a missed opportunity for a further food/ice-cream/beer vendor as they would have made a killing in that heat and with numbers of folk"....

.....Ditto, Much discussed on the day!
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Quote:
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"I felt there was a missed opportunity for a further food/ice-cream/beer vendor as they would have made a killing in that heat and with numbers of folk"....

.....Ditto, Much discussed on the day!
Lasy year the National Trust provided food and refreshment at their insistence. This year I believe the deal is different.

You have to take into account it was our first time at the venue and it was also the first time the National Trust had had a car show there. Both sides learnt alot from last years event.
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I was disappointed to read Alphataurus' post. I think that it is more than a little unfair to the small team which organises SICD.

It might surprise Alphataurus to learn that the organisers really do try to keep the ticket price as low as possible - something which is in everyone's interest.

We are acutely aware of the fact that family budgets are tight and that costs such as fuel costs are high.

We have to work within the constraints imposed by the venue owners - in this case the NTS.

This year's ticket price was set by the NTS - the reduced price for tickets purchased in advance was a concession negotiated by the organisers. The NTS also required the charge to be on a "per person" rather than a "per car" basis.

A significant part of the ticket price goes to the NTS.

Alphataurus may not be aware of all of the costs involved in running the event - for example last year £1355.80 was spent on newspaper and magazine adverts. A fair amount of money was spent on printing posters and tickets, having new signs made and on ground protection material.

AROC also arranges the insurance required for the event.

Before Hill of Tarvit was chosen for the event other venues were considered - those which were suitable for the event were more expensive and would have resulted in higher ticket prices.

Spare a thought for the members of the small team who give their time voluntarily to organise the event - using annual leave from work for weekday meetings with the property manager at Hill of Tarvit and weekends for site visits.

Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of Alfa (and Lancia and Fiat) enthusiasts really enjoy the day and appreciare the effort which goes in to making it happen.

Peter
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Thanks for the official response Peter.

Hopefully that will be the end of any negative feedback re pricing of the event.
 
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I'm gonna try and get there this year - I missed last year's event due to flu! That really peed me off as I was so looking forward to taking my (at the time) 11 year old son. This year, he is 12 and I'm actually even more annoyed than last year as my beautiful (well, I thought so!) 156 V6 which I spent the last 15 months of ownership gradually tweaking its looks like fixing small scratches, and putting in GTA headlights, got rammed by a silly man in a van!!! Brakes my heart a little that I can't show her off. Now, I have a 156 SW 2.4 JDTM, and is just doesn't look as good!!!
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I’m sorry if my post "disappointed” you AlfaAlba. I tried to make it clear that I was in no way criticising any individual or any organisation and I would never knowingly be unfair to anyone. I apologise if the sentiments were unclear.

To reiterate, I was simply posing the question! Are we not to ask such questions in the fear that the Organisers might be “disappointed”, is your organisation not a democracy?

It doesn’t surprise me to learn that the ticket price is kept as low as possible nor am I ignorant of the potential outlay for such events, I’m sure you all do your best to keep such cost to the absolute minimum, that’s what we would expect you to do in your position other wise your position would be virtually redundant!

You refer to the team who give their time to organise the events...well done to you all, you all you do a great job but I’m guessing you do it because you want to do it-you enjoy doing it and not because you are being forced to give up your weekends and holidays so, on that assumption I will be glad to spare a thought for you all but I will not shed a tear of sympathy whilst doing so.

Lastly regarding your post, if you will allow me to comment on your final statement “Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of Alfa (and Lancia and Fiat) enthusiasts really enjoy the day and appreciate the effort which goes in to making it happen” You may like to correct me if I am mistaken, but the implication seems to be that I am in the minority and I don’t appreciate the effort which goes into the events. If that were really the case myself and others in my household would not have attended such events over the passed 6/7 years there by supporting those events in the best way we can, simply by attending and by making the events known to others by word of mouth and via our Facebook accounts etc.

The statement made by Dinomito in my opinion is outrageous “Hopefully that will be the end of any negative feedback re pricing of the event” Is this designed to stifle debate? That’s what I take from it! Do you only welcome positive feedback? If this is the case I sincerely hope that those of us that may have such philosophies do not practice them in the commercial world otherwise the public can exercise the power of choice and be selective about which organisations they deal with!

Last edited by Alphataurus; 17-03-13 at 15:10.
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The statement made by Dinomito in my opinion is outrageous “Hopefully that will be the end of any negative feedback re pricing of the event” Is this designed to stifle debate?!
Blimey Alphataurus that is a bit strong. The price is the price - you either think "yep sounds good to me" and attend or think it not worth it and stay away.

Debate? - as I say the price is what it is and Dinomito's comment was hardly outrageous. I took it as being helpful and drawing a line under something that will not change. The whole point of the thread is to see who will attend and not to ask why others won't.

Anyway - you know what?. I am tempted to drive 400 miles to attend as it seems like a bargain to me!

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Last edited by PaulR; 17-03-13 at 19:07. Reason: Clarity - added a "who"
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I'll be there.

Is there a bike section or is it cars only? I have a Benelli which I don't use enough, a run would be good for it.
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need a day like this in wales
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Hi CPE,

Bikes are more than welcome to attend. Every year we try and encourage bikes to come along but unfortunately with little success. Hopefully your attendance may start a trend.

Regards
Jackie
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