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Motortax resistance initiative

Hello folks

As you know the motor tax might be going up soon.
Naturally no one wants that.

So a kind soul has created a facebook page where we can discuss what we can do to stop this.

Aanmelden | Facebook

I think we should join up and discuss what kind of statements and protests we can muster.
If we can get the snowball rolling we might do something, rather than idle away in forums while our darling Alfas rust away as we cant afford to drive them anymore.
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What kinda strutbraces have you man on the 156 and did they make much of a difference?
 
(Post Link) post #3 of 30 Old 11-03-12 Thread Starter
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I have a OMP lower front, an Alfastumper upper, and a homemade rear, which is actually gone now.
They dont make much difference really. Only if you really push can you see you have slight more control. By that point you are probably going to loose your license anyway
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Originally Posted by Damien_C View Post
What kinda strutbraces have you man on the 156 and did they make much of a difference?
WOT Damo!!!

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I have a OMP lower front, an Alfastumper upper, and a homemade rear, which is actually gone now.
They dont make much difference really. Only if you really push can you see you have slight more control. By that point you are probably going to loose your license anyway
Nice one for that man.
 
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from my experience the strut braces do make a difference. in order of which makes the most,

1. Lower front
2. Rear
3. Upper front
 
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x2 post, sorry
 
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x2 post, sorry
Congrats on Franko's old GTA?
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How does a thread about motor tax end up as a discussion on strut braces and someone called Frankos GTA ?
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How does a thread about motor tax end up as a discussion on strut braces and someone called Frankos GTA ?
It's the beauty of off topic....
Don't fight it just embrace it!
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If you're in a pub having a pint or tinnies at home or a glass (many bottles in Dermo's case) of wine do you slap someone on the wrist for introducing a new topic in any particular conversation? Or should we put egg timers on the table and say we're only talking about changing our air intake manifolds for the next ten minutes....
Not a crack at you Swarlb but I get p***ed off about how anal we can be about staying on topic.
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Topic, isnt that a chocolate bar? Like a tracker but more cerebral
 
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I can understand going 'off topic' , but in this instance, it never got started. The first reply was about strut braces. For someone new to the forum, and possibly having an interest in the thread, it seems a bit pointless to stray from the original post without even a stab at a debate.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarlb View Post
I can understand going 'off topic' , but in this instance, it never got started. The first reply was about strut braces. For someone new to the forum, and possibly having an interest in the thread, it seems a bit pointless to stray from the original post without even a stab at a debate.
Well ? Why not debate it so ? You have the platform . I'm sure that if you have something to say thats relevant then off with you. It is possible to ignore persons off topic and go with the topic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roarsbaby View Post
If you're in a pub having a pint or tinnies at home or a glass (many bottles in Dermo's case) of wine do you slap someone on the wrist for introducing a new topic in any particular conversation? Or should we put egg timers on the table and say we're only talking about changing our air intake manifolds for the next ten minutes....
Not a crack at you Swarlb but I get p***ed off about how anal we can be about staying on topic.
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Originally Posted by swarlb View Post
I can understand going 'off topic' , but in this instance, it never got started. The first reply was about strut braces. For someone new to the forum, and possibly having an interest in the thread, it seems a bit pointless to stray from the original post without even a stab at a debate.
In fairness Rory, swarlb has a point, if you had a specific issue that you wanted to look up on the sud or 166 forum and you thought you found the thread you were looking for and you started reading it and it turned out it never answered the question you were after it would get a bit tiresome after a while.

I generally don't mind a bit of 'off topic' once the question is or eventually does get answered as it is bound to happen given the conversational nature of threads and the fact that we tlak basically on a daily basis!

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I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.
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I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.


I apologise for my esteemed colleagues going off topic....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapanciusz View Post
I don't not know what a tracker mortgage is.
Fixed your post there.... It's 2012 man... get with it!!



Anyway back to original topic...

In principle I agree with the motortax protest to get political attention to this issue. .and the rising costs of motoring in general. And yes as the OP correctly said moaning away on internet fourms won't achieve anything. But considering the C02 band rises proposed (again) will probably effect only a few here in AO I'm guess there won't be huge numbers here.

There is a certain critical mass/number of citizens required to make a decent stand/protest/stand that gets attention.

In theory if 5,000 cars turned up to Leinster house and camped outside for 5 days... that would get noticed.

If a large number motorists from around the country decided NOT to pay motor-tax for the same 3 to 6 month period you'd imagine that too would get some political traction/attention. Of course to stay within the law they would need to keep the cars on private property. Having said that I read that in 2011 there some report that said 250,000 motorist did just that the tax (~€80m)... no one seemed too ruffled...

250,000 drivers dodge motor tax - Motoring, Lifestyle - Independent.ie


Again, if a certain percentage of the 776,253 mortgages in Ireland (€115bn) decided willingly not to pay for 3 to 6 months..that too would resister on the political radar. But again already there are 107,708 mortgages in trouble this year (which is terribly sad for the people concerned) UPDATE 1-Irish mortgage arrears grow sharply in Q4 | Reuters
So how may people would need to stop paying to get what-ever-point-is-being-made across to the government? Don't know....

What about fuel prices: Pumps.ie - Fuel price breakdown
Well I've read those (spam) emails asking people not to buy fuel from certain brands on certain days.... nothing has happened. We do need a good lobby group to control spirioing fuel prices... it's a cliche at this stage, but fuel prices effect transportation and therefore everything...


But unfortunately small localized petrol-price / motor-tax protests won't work imo.

To organise a volume of people to refuse to pay some tax/installment in protest would take some serous organisation.. a good popular credible leader. Anyone able to muster troops on this scale should probably be involved in politics in the first place anyway!

While we're on the topic.. .I wonder how the household charge thing will play out? I guess a percentage of people will panic pay just before the end of the month... more will wait 2 years for the new property tax...... who knows....

The country is strapped for cash... it's annoying being taxed directly to the hilt and then being hit with stealth / new taxes... I can't see any big climb down from the levels of current taxation... can anyone else see this?

I'd love to be part of a protest that brings income tax back down to 20% and VAT to 5% and abolish duty on fuel and VRT etc.... but will it happen? I guess Lacken (Pat) could just stop taxing and fueling his new GTA.. that would hit revenue.



Just re-reading this post and I'm not too sure of my point now... ah wait.. I just remembered.... normally a good way to make a protest/point was to hit your intended target financially, in this case the government/state. But it seems the planet is so screwed for cash at the moment small scale protests just won't work.... imo...

It would be great if some motoring lobby group, for example the AA, had a lot more power/influence to put pressure on the political system. We as motorists are just waaaaaay too unorganised and isolated as a group.



On second thoughts I like the idea of camping in the car for a few days in Dublin...... could be a great meet idea too!

My fingers are sore from typing now.....

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Why don't you guys propose the "Black box" principle, the more you drive your car the more tax/insurance you pay, the less you drive the less you pay. This proposal is being widely implemented in the UK for young drivers who are currently paying thousands to insure a 500 banger. Surely the same principle could be applied to road tax?
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These are the current rates for cars based on engine cc size: https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

and this is based on CO2 emissions (not HCs, not NOX gas, not micro-soot particles, just CO2): https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

They would never loose out on the tax for a parked up car... there are discussion (threads locally) about moving the road (motor) tax to the fuel... ie the more you use the more you pay.... this is fine in principle but it's a certainly that some time after the tax goes on the fuel, the original motor tax would be reintroduced etc.
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These are the current rates for cars based on engine cc size: https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

and this is based on CO2 emissions (not HCs, not NOX gas, not micro-soot particles, just CO2): https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

They would never loose out on the tax for a parked up car... there are discussion (threads locally) about moving the road (motor) tax to the fuel... ie the more you use the more you pay.... this is fine in principle but it's a certainly that some time after the tax goes on the fuel, the original motor tax would be reintroduced etc.
I like the idea of tax as a proportion of your driving, takes the hassle out of taxing the car as well tbh.

To the OP, most of us on here have older cars that haven't benefitted from the CO2 tax rates so the affect on us is minimal.
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Some Post , Cathal as usual ( well sometimes!) you make a lot of sense , but there were times in Ireland when tax rates were 58% and when our rates of pay were much lower. Youre right everybody moans and groans but no one does anything , and it does need a "figure head" to organise a demonstration properly. It seems that nothing is safe from Tax/Vat in this country . We have become complacent in that we seem to accept everthing that is thrown at us by the Government (or Germany !) .
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Some Post , Cathal as usual ( well sometimes!) you make a lot of sense , but there were times in Ireland when tax rates were 58% and when our rates of pay were much lower. Youre right everybody moans and groans but no one does anything , and it does need a "figure head" to organise a demonstration properly. It seems that nothing is safe from Tax/Vat in this country . We have become complacent in that we seem to accept everthing that is thrown at us by the Government (or Germany !) .
I remember in the late nineties earning less than the current minimum wage, but the threshold to pay 48% tax was exceeded below the current min. wage!

Coming from that experience, and having had the "easy" years of the Celtic tiger, I'd prefer if it were direct taxes that people experienced rather than these indirect taxes that are being imposed.

I admit I'm complacent and take the view that it's one less night out, one less day using the car, less clothes/shoe shopping etc due to the cuts, and I just cut back when I'm affected.

One thing I have found and this motortax thing is indicative, is that as I'm not directly affected by PAYE cuts, most of the cuts have not affected me. I earn enough to expect to have a cut (I budget about 2.5% per year/budget) and the cuts have yet to affect me that much, and I don't earn megabucks at all.
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Its just as you said , more tax less to spend foolishly (then again we who own Alfa's and spend on the car before ourselves !) Gaev up Ciggies on the 3rd of Jan and not looked back yet . Then again was off them for 10 years before but due to family things went back to them ., bit foolish and not an intelligent thing to do but we all need a vice from time to time !
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Gaev up Ciggies on the 3rd of Jan and not looked back yet .
Well done Dermo!
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