The failed persuit of Italian motoring - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 23 Old 21-05-16 Thread Starter
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The failed persuit of Italian motoring

For someone who has grown up since childhood, known as the 'Italian car enthusiast', i have NEVER owned an Italian car since passing to drive. Having said that i have driven the likes of 156, 147, Punto, 124, 126, and few others. But that is not the same as owning them, is it. I'm a pretender.

Now i couldn't rectify this problem before because i had no money. Between 08-12 I had naff all. Yet seeing x1/9s, HF Turbos, 155 all going for really nice money. Once i've seen x1/9 at £400, and needed a bit of work but would've been superb.

Now i do have some regular people money, i tried a few years back. 50k otc, GTV 3.0 v6, red with beige leather, ph2 £4995. Phoned up about it.....SOLD. The ad was 20mins old. Look at the prices now(!)

HF Turbo, Burgundy, 80k, £1800 initially. The guy decided to put on Ebay instead, outbidded last moment at £3000. Prices now, where some bloke is selling a 120+ mileage one for £8k and reckon they'll be worth £20k.

Same with a few others. Ended up buying an rx8 instead. (brilliant btw.)

So this is where i find things messed up. The rx8 has satisfied me as car for the last few years, but i've still been keeping an eye on things during that time. And allllll i'm seeing is just high prices for things and still going up and up. Alfa Alfettas, GTVs, 75s. Lancia HF Delta, Fulvias, Fiat 124s, Fiat x1/9, 147 GTAs.

I can't seem to find cheap classic Italian motoring anymore. Everything is an "appreciating classic", or a "future classic", (which is dealer talk for, 'let me add a premium for a worthless car') or a BARN FIND?!?! How bloomin barns are there in this country hiding cars. Like honestly what a load of bs. Basically you lost the paperwork and decided to throw some hay on it right?

Just so freakin typical, when cars are some what reasonably priced, i don't have any reasonable income to match. When i do, the prices have gone up, so i still can't match.

Last year seeing GTAs for 4-6k, now apparently 10-12k. Cheapest x1/9 i can find is £1500......but it's spares or a resto project??? Alfa 75 3.0l, £4500k.....and the wheel arch is rotted away. Premium one...forget about it.

You may argue they're really old cars. But this January, a guy couldn't get rid of his 146 1.8ts with only 23k otc for just under £2k. Now there ones sold at a dealer with 109k for £2k. Seen good 145s early this year go for £900, quite low mileage. Now there;s people trying to sell theres for £2k, despite having welding done, or £1800 despite the bumper hanging off, with the tagline 'rare cars, future classic.' *sigh* NO! just because they're rare doesn't mean they're future classic, that's not how it works, you can't just inflate the market like that. Same with 164s.

Although the biscuit was the HF turbo, trying it for £8k+ now with 120k+ mileage, and apparently it's going to be worth "over £20k in 2 years, and i'm only selling because i've don't have the space." Yeah sure mate you haven't got the space to keep a car that you say will give a 300% return. What you got a Miura in the waiting or something?

Now i don't know where i;m going with this moan, i'm a bit drunk from a social evening. At this moment in time i'm not sure whether i'm disappointed in myself that i missed the sweet spot for cars i lusted after as a kid and teen, and that i can't afford it, or if i could afford it, i know inside i'd be paying over for what you're ACTUALLY getting. That the reality is, i've limited myself now to a 156 or higher mileage GTV.

Or am i just genuinely dismayed at the old car scene at the moment where everything pre-2005, is a "classic" or "a future classic", two terms that grinds my gears (almost as much people genderising their cars), and used as an excuse to stick wedge onto the car's value, in hopes of reeling one in.
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Try being a ford fan and buying a mk1 or mk2 escort. Sierra cosworth or an escort cosworth oh and don't remind me that I sold my s1 rs turbo for 3 grand lol.

All cars are the same the good ones get rare the value goes up if you can afford it buy it if not then sorry it's tough
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My Brother sold a solid 2 door Mk2 escort for £500 in around 2001

It was only a small engined one, but it would have been worth at least £10k now just for the shell alone.
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It's all about the cycle of neglect to desirability. A colleague bought an etype for £500 when they were not appreciated but the were relatively common in a bad condition. This includes the ones that now look utterly perfect and we assume they've always looked that way. A Sierra was a car . It was used as a car and run into the ground. Now people may have memories of them and want to buy them. They've all gone now. Pre 1975 cars had metal bumpers etc. Their headlining was sewn with pockets for the supporting wires to go through. No moulds to have been thrown away for plastic bits and styled headlamp lenses so it's easier to restore them. It's the current cars that are more difficult than my colleagues Etype which was pretty much fabricated in the first place.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 23 Old 21-05-16 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gtearl View Post
Try being a ford fan and buying a mk1 or mk2 escort. Sierra cosworth or an escort cosworth oh and don't remind me that I sold my s1 rs turbo for 3 grand lol.

All cars are the same the good ones get rare the value goes up if you can afford it buy it if not then sorry it's tough
You're so right. That is the marketplace in general. And i suppose the 20yr old back then are like 40-50 now, so have a bit to splash around. But those cars you mentioned still have degree of logic, but say a Alfa 145? or x1/9? Should they command those values?

Although i do have to question whether these markets are just a bit beyond ridiculous. It's a quite a big leap in short space of time. I can't help but think the market is skewed in terms of value getting back.

But as i've said, my moan is just as much about me not getting in there when there was a sweet spot, and prices were reflective of the car, rather than everyone trying to make a buck. If i had worked just a bit harder at the beginning, i may have actually enjoyed some real beauts for relative peanuts.

But if the rx8 has a sudden leap in value in the Summer, i won't be complaining

But now sober, i'm glad it wasn't as ranty or messed up, as i thought the post was haha.
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Over the years I have wanted a classic italian as a weekend toy. Shortlisted many:

Fiat 131, Strada Abarth, Delta integrale, Classic alfa spider etc etc.

Each car I knew for a while before so I had a rough idea on price but as soon as I started looking to buy the values would shoot up, sometimes astranomically (Delta, 131!).

The pattern even happened with the 156 GTA. I finally got what I wanted though with a 3.2 GT and I jumped at the right moment. They have increased in value by around £1k already this year (lets ignore the £2300 I just spent on it shall we).

Alfa GT 3.2 V6 - Quaife diff, Wizard SS manifolds, Scorpion SS downpipes, Scorption GTA catback, Bilstein b4 Dampers, braided brake lines, MTEC drilled disks, Red Stuff pads.
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Maybe the new 124 will be one to "invest" in ....?



(In 15-20 years)
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Cars are getting rarer and unmolested ones especially, there are folks who just try and mess up the market true, but most people with good cars are not going to let them go, I don't care much for what my Alfetta GTV is worth because I would never sell it, but if for some god forsaken reason I had to I would price it at what I've spent and some because good luck finding another like it.
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(Post Link) post #9 of 23 Old 23-05-16 Thread Starter
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Cars are getting rarer and unmolested ones especially, there are folks who just try and mess up the market true, but most people with good cars are not going to let them go, I don't care much for what my Alfetta GTV is worth because I would never sell it, but if for some god forsaken reason I had to I would price it at what I've spent and some because good luck finding another like it.
That's an interesting view and you know what, has some truths to it. In your particular case, you're not looking to sell, but if you HAD to sell, it's a nice idea you have, i would however think you would be set with a different mentality, if you were in a position that you HAD to sell.
In the case of, "it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it." I'm seeing cars that i feel have been grossly overpriced by dealers that have been on for sale for at least year if not more. When things like that are happening, i do wonder what the knock on effect is.
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Over the years I have wanted a classic italian as a weekend toy. Shortlisted many:

Fiat 131, Strada Abarth, Delta integrale, Classic alfa spider etc etc.

Each car I knew for a while before so I had a rough idea on price but as soon as I started looking to buy the values would shoot up, sometimes astranomically (Delta, 131!).

The pattern even happened with the 156 GTA. I finally got what I wanted though with a 3.2 GT and I jumped at the right moment. They have increased in value by around £1k already this year (lets ignore the £2300 I just spent on it shall we).
Well done with the GT. But in general exactly what i'm finding. In some cars i see a logic, Delta INTEGRALE, 131 Abarth,GTAs. You the real sort of rare performance pinnacles of that particular model. But when it's a 145/6, or x1/9 for example. Or a high mileage 164. I must admit, i feel as though we're in the massive realms of utter p-taking. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure they're lovely cars. I've driven a 'tuned' x1/9 absolutely mental fun. But come on.

One that got away was the HF Turbo. Up for £1800 on the ads. Really gutted that the guy figured out what he had in the end and plonked it on Ebay.
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How about retitling the thread the failed persuit of spelling PURSUIT wrong? Sorry - couldn't resist!
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About your discussion Cappucino I went to see this car a year and a half ago, it was up at £4500 which I thought was damn good money, I had no where to keep it but I was so close to buying it even though I have one already because it was so original and unmolested, I missed the boat, low and behold the guy who bought it put it up for 2 grand more instantly having done sweet fa, I was a bit annoyed but some would call it fair play, I just never trust the last line, oh the garage I had wasn't available anymore so I'm selling, any enthusiast would do everything and anything in their means to keep such a good car even without a garage, so for me he was just making a quick buck, 2.0 Alfetta GTV SOLD (1985) on Car And Classic UK [C625080]
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How about retitling the thread the failed persuit of spelling PURSUIT wrong? Sorry - couldn't resist!
Haha, up yours, it's staying. *blows raspberries and runs*
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About your discussion Cappucino I went to see this car a year and a half ago, it was up at £4500 which I thought was damn good money, I had no where to keep it but I was so close to buying it even though I have one already because it was so original and unmolested, I missed the boat, low and behold the guy who bought it put it up for 2 grand more instantly having done sweet fa, I was a bit annoyed but some would call it fair play, I just never trust the last line, oh the garage I had wasn't available anymore so I'm selling, any enthusiast would do everything and anything in their means to keep such a good car even without a garage, so for me he was just making a quick buck, 2.0 Alfetta GTV SOLD (1985) on Car And Classic UK [C625080]
That's just it isn't it. It is fair play, he saw it as a business opportunity and took it. But i understand, when your motive is alot pure than his. It's so frustrating. Also when others jump on that 'it's a future classic' bandwagon, the price for everything goes up, and it becomes harder and harder to find the right one for the right money.

There's a silver one in the classifieds that is up £3k? Maybe worth a gander?
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Out of curiosity Duemila, what is your GTV like? I've been in an original Alfetta, what's your one like in comparison. Alot more sporty i imagine, with the GTV moniker.
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How about retitling the thread the failed persuit of spelling PURSUIT wrong? Sorry - couldn't resist!
Are you being a pudant?
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Out of curiosity Duemila, what is your GTV like? I've been in an original Alfetta, what's your one like in comparison. Alot more sporty i imagine, with the GTV moniker.
I've had quite a few, 4 door and GTV'S, all I can say is this one I've had the chance to fully sort the suspension where as when I was younger I couldn't afford it, I just like the way they drive and the sound of carbs although there are a lot faster cars out there, but this is just my cup of tea, and I've always liked the styling,
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I've had quite a few, 4 door and GTV'S, all I can say is this one I've had the chance to fully sort the suspension where as when I was younger I couldn't afford it, I just like the way they drive and the sound of carbs although there are a lot faster cars out there, but this is just my cup of tea, and I've always liked the styling,
That's cool. You clearly love your car. I do like the styling of the Alfetta Gtv. Got that muscle car look to it. It was alot shorter than i was expecting though. Not that it's a bad thing, but it always looked like a huge car to me in the pictures.
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Are you being a pudant?
I don't know as I have never heard the word 'pudant' before and can't find a definition for it anywhere?
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I don't know as I have never heard the word 'pudant' before and can't find a definition for it anywhere?
I simply swapped an "e" for a "u" as you did when I spelled pedant.
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I simply swapped an "e" for a "u" as you did when I spelled pedant.
Ah, understand now. At least you weren't being a total punis then!
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You said "punis". [snigger]
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You plonkur Rodney!!!....No? Ok... i'll get me coat.
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