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(Post Link) post #1 of 26 Old 28-11-15 Thread Starter
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So i went to view two used cars for my son who is after a cheap runaround,one was a 2003 polo which was for sale at a local dealers and had issues including offside rear door wouldnt open at all (not even from the inside door release) extremely out of date cambelt change,oil leak,2 month shorter mot than advertised,lots of paint peel plus a few other issues for sale at £1950..then a 2003 bmw 320ci was viewed with its own issues incl no mot cert evident (looking for it or getting a reprint) front drivers window dropped slightly,imobiliser bleeps until the engine is started,and a few scrapes here and there non of which were advertised for sale at £2400

I would never advertise a car for sale unless i had these problems delt with beforehand or at least warn potential buyers and wonder if its better to just help him buy a new car and save all this wasted time....
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I commented similarly to a fella when viewing a motor (for fun, if honest).

What you expect for a grand? He replied.

Honesty? Straightforwardness? Decency?
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With lower end dealers it does tend to be the case recently (i.e. last 5 or so years in my experience) that they only fix stuff if someone is genuinely interested in buying the car. I often would hear "if you are serious about buying we will fix the dashboard warning lights/dent/cracked trim/blowing exhaust/torn seat etc before you pick it up"

Whatever happened to preparing a car for sale? I'm happy to be realistic about a cars condition based on age/mileage/price - but it really shouldn't be broken when first viewed.

As for private sellers - there's no excuse really and I find that the seller and the car tend to be, like a dog and it's owner, very similar..... If the owner is scruffy, poorly presented and erratic then the car is too.
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Yes, it is very common practice to put a banger onto a car lot "as is" with the promise of fault rectification on purchase. The last thing a dealer wants to do, is splash out from his/her cash flow on repairing faults on 20 or 30 cars and then just have them sitting there. Some DIY buyers, will even negotiate on the price to fix faults themselves.
It is better business for the dealer, to have a deposit on a car for purchase and then repair it before the balance is paid than not. Any 12 year old car, is probably going to have something wrong with it.
Just an ad on here...... A work colleagues 2004 VW Golf diesel, every time you put some real pressure on the accelerator, the car went into limp mode. Having had no end of work done on it, it was deemed to be the turbo.(after EGR, terra clean etc).
She drove it to a main dealer and bought a 2012 polo. The dealer didn't road test her car and gave her 1500 quid as trade in value. The old Golf will no doubt end up on a forecourt somewhere after a trip through the auctions, and the saga will start again.

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Being up front about the issues isn't difficult, is it?
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Being up front about the issues isn't difficult, is it?

Not quite sure of the question.

Is the dealer supposed to put a piece of paper in the window listing all the cars faults?

or

Is the seller supposed to tell the dealer the cars faults before trade in?
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If I speak to a dealer and he says it is straight, or ad says "clean" or "solid".....I don't expect rotten sills, misfires.....doors that won't open.
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If I speak to a dealer and he says it is straight, or ad says "clean" or "solid".....I don't expect rotten sills, misfires.....doors that won't open.
Then yes, agreed. However if the car is on a lot, it will probably just have a price tag in the window. Most dealers will just give you the key, (providing it's not in an instant driveaway position) so you can look at it unmolested and make your own decisions. I'm not sure dealers want to engage customers too much on banger car lot sites, until a test drive is asked for or money discussed.
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Originally Posted by Headgasket14 View Post
Yes, it is very common practice to put a banger onto a car lot "as is" with the promise of fault rectification on purchase. The last thing a dealer wants to do, is splash out from his/her cash flow on repairing faults on 20 or 30 cars and then just have them sitting there. Some DIY buyers, will even negotiate on the price to fix faults themselves.
It is better business for the dealer, to have a deposit on a car for purchase and then repair it before the balance is paid than not. Any 12 year old car, is probably going to have something wrong with it.
It didn't used to be this way.

It was only ever this way if you included "cowboys" in the same description as "dealers"

Cowboys always tried to pass off old shonk. "Dealers" used to prep their cars and try to make a premium for having decent cars for sale.

Like a lot of things nowadays, too many people think it's an easy game to be a professional so you get cowboys setting the threshold for what is acceptable.

Now it IS ok to put an old nail full of faults out for sale and only have a go at fixing it when you get a deposit, because the cowboys have lowered everyone's expectations to the point that anyone trying to run a decent car dealership can't compete.

We therefore get what we deserve (and even defend it as "right" on forums....)

It's a race to the bottom for all but the 10% who can afford to buy new from a main dealer :-(
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A main dealer, (i.e. franchised dealer) will normally only have fully prepped vehicles under a certain age on their forecourts. It's when you get to dealers of older cars on used lots that will not prep until a buyer is found, (except valet it).
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A main dealer will have the car on the forecourt for a set number of days at a price and will expect the buyer to ask for about three things to be fixed in preparation. If it is not sold in that time it will be moved to the next stage in the food chain ;the auction. The dealer will not prepare the car as they are potentially preparing it for the auction and this money is lost. I was told this by a Bristol Street salesman.
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Faith restored today when i looked at a 2003 Mondeo 2.5v6 zetec s with just over 110 thousand miles,2 owners in pretty good condition,13mths mot with no advisories but with the 2 front tyres slightly cracking.After some friendly banter "the work from home trader" agreed to replace the front tyres with 2 new premium ones and all for a reasonable £1000

It drove nice with no knocks or rattles and went well enough too so lets see how long my son keeps it out of a ditch


Cheers for the replys guys....
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good luck with that one - nice drive
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Nice car the 2.5 Mondeo. Basically a Jaguar X-type.


I certainly wouldn't have bought a VW from that era, after the troubles I had with my MK4 Golf.
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Nice car the 2.5 Mondeo. Basically a Jaguar X-type.


I certainly wouldn't have bought a VW from that era, after the troubles I had with my MK4 Golf.

Ive had a couple of st220`s and a st24 and they were all reliable and drove well, even the ac on this zetec s was freezing cold..
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How's the insurance on that one ?
A friend had one when they were new and the V6 Mondeo was expensive to insure.
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How's the insurance on that one ?
A friend had one when they were new and the V6 Mondeo was expensive to insure.
My son is only 21 and only been driving a year so its approx £1600 but only £150 more than the polo,he can get his ncd doubled when he gets another year under his belt so i expect it to drop a fair bit..tbh he earns well but isnt into cars that much so cheap n cheerful and local was his main stipulations.I bought him the car so tax and insurance are the only costs oh and the fuel which if its like my 156v6 its a good job he earns well

He spends more on bicycles than on cars..
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You will probably find it isn't the sort of car which people of his age normally drive hence the insurance is lower.

I remember when I was 21, the insurance on my 3.0 164 wasn't much more than my 1.3 fiesta.
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You will probably find it isn't the sort of car which people of his age normally drive hence the insurance is lower.

I remember when I was 21, the insurance on my 3.0 164 wasn't much more than my 1.3 fiesta.

Just for fun the cheapest quote he found on my car was £2.5k, thankfully im in my 40s and i only pay £290
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A main dealer, (i.e. franchised dealer) will normally only have fully prepped vehicles under a certain age on their forecourts. It's when you get to dealers of older cars on used lots that will not prep until a buyer is found, (except valet it).
As I said - it didn't used to be like this.

There used to be 3 types of trade seller:

1. Main dealers (new cars + low mileage/late used cars, well prepared and pricey, lots of smarmy salesmen)
2. Dealers (decent range of cars, all well prepared and priced a little below main dealers, plus the occassional "sold as seen"/"trade sale" part-ex cars that DIYers could pick up cheap. Sharp sales guys, normally ex-main dealer types or wannabe main dealer types selling). These guys had well positioned lots in main towns.
3. Cowboys (all sorts of cars, no real preparation, no sales people - just a scruffy bloke trying to scratch a living with not enough money to do a good job). Normally traded off a lock up or front garden

Now we seem to just have types 1 and 3 with a tiny smattering of specialist indies for certain marques. Type 2 has been squeezed out by Type 3 due to (a) the internet, (b) used car supermarkets and (c) punters getting ground down into expecting poor quality a la Ryanair and Easyjet which sets the (incorrect) expectation that "service" and "quality" are optional extras....

Last edited by FredDibnah; 30-11-15 at 03:34.
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As I said - it didn't used to be like this.

There used to be 3 types of trade seller:

1. Main dealers (new cars + low mileage/late used cars, well prepared and pricey, lots of smarmy salesmen)
2. Dealers (decent range of cars, all well prepared and priced a little below main dealers, plus the occassional "sold as seen"/"trade sale" part-ex cars that DIYers could pick up cheap. Sharp sales guys, normally ex-main dealer types or wannabe main dealer types selling). These guys had well positioned lots in main towns.
3. Cowboys (all sorts of cars, no real preparation, no sales people - just a scruffy bloke trying to scratch a living with not enough money to do a good job). Normally traded off a lock up or front garden

Now we seem to just have types 1 and 3 with a tiny smattering of specialist indies for certain marques. Type 2 has been squeezed out by Type 3 due to (a) the internet, (b) used car supermarkets and (c) punters getting ground down into expecting poor quality a la Ryanair and Easyjet which sets the (incorrect) expectation that "service" and "quality" are optional extras....
Yes, No.2 are far & few between. There is a company near me who are like this. They sell late model cars, but are priced about a grand over book. A lot of the "guaranteed finance" warehouses I think are disappearing, where you buy a car, and once you have paid back the interest + value, you could have bought 2 cars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam bailey View Post
My son is only 21 and only been driving a year so its approx £1600 but only £150 more than the polo,he can get his ncd doubled when he gets another year under his belt so i expect it to drop a fair bit..tbh he earns well but isnt into cars that much so cheap n cheerful and local was his main stipulations.I bought him the car so tax and insurance are the only costs oh and the fuel which if its like my 156v6 its a good job he earns well

He spends more on bicycles than on cars..
Crikey.

Quote:
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You will probably find it isn't the sort of car which people of his age normally drive hence the insurance is lower.

I remember when I was 21, the insurance on my 3.0 164 wasn't much more than my 1.3 fiesta.
Crikey.

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Just for fun the cheapest quote he found on my car was £2.5k, thankfully im in my 40s and i only pay £290
Crikey.

Do you live in Peppa Pig land?! Next time I am born, I'm coming living next door to you.

There are clearly some cars that offer respite from insurers, it's just a case of finding them.

For example, I pay ~£460 for my 1.6TS 147 this year, but to change to a GTA 147 would cost me an extra... wait for it.... £20. It would also cost me less to insure a 2008 3.0 I6 BMW 330i. Crazy world. :wall:
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Quote ..... For example, I pay ~£460 for my 1.6TS 147 this year,




Surely thats more than the whole car is worth

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I pay £175.00 for my GTV V6. and £140 on the spider. Luckily we're in a low risk postcode.
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I have no issue with them not putting cars in for a test until they have buyer lined up, and not fixing trivial MoT related faults until it goes for a test. It's the misdescription that has always driven me mad. 150,000 miles is not just over 100,000 miles. A car with lacquer peel on every panel is not in "excellent condition". That rust on the rear arches is not surface rust, it may be showing on the surface but it's eaten through from underneath. A service will not fix that cloud of blue smoke.

It seems the middle ground these days is occupied by car supermarket type places who basically sell you a finance package with a car thrown in. Not really my thing but it seems to be what people want. My next door neighbour was in the game for over 30 years. In later years, he sold them from home, openly as a trader, including a couple to me. He had contacts at a couple of ex-Rover dealers and used to get the pick of their trade-ins. He didn't sell crap, they were all sensibly priced and on the button, usually for £750-£2000. Slowly over 3-4 years, the business dried up completely because he didn't offer finace and free insurance that sort of thing.
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