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Poppy outrage

Where did it come from.

Today I have seen stories of the following poopy shame and outrage situations:

A footballer from Derry. If you can't appreciate why someone from Derry has a dim view of British soldiers you need to bone up on your Irish history.

A footballer from Serbia who's village was bombed by peace keeping forces during the conflict.

Someone on the BBC who was unfortunate enough to lose her poppy whilst taking her seat.

A newsreader who has her own personal reasons for not wearing one on screen.

All of these people have been subjected to abuse, mostly from Twitter keyboard warriors.

Possibly most bizarre of all, Jodie Whittaker apparently didn't wear one in Dr Who last night. People are angry because a fictional time-travelling alien from a planet that no longer exists didn't wear a poppy. This is an actual story in the Mail. Their angry red-faced middle aged white male readership were already appalled at Dr Who being a woman - BBC PC agenda making us all gay etc. This is the final straw (again) they will never watch it again (again).

All of this is before we get into the EDL and Britain First making **** up about poppy bans because of Muslims.

People tell me that the world wars were about protecting our freedoms and way of life. This diktat that all persons MUST wear a poppy regardless of any personal beliefs doesn't seem entirely in keeping with that.

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Originally Posted by keithyboy View Post

Possibly most bizarre of all, Jodie Whittaker apparently didn't wear one in Dr Who last night. People are angry because a fictional time-travelling alien from a planet that no longer exists didn't wear a poppy. This is an actual story in the Mail. Their angry red-faced middle aged white male readership were already appalled at Dr Who being a woman - BBC PC agenda making us all gay etc. This is the final straw (again) they will never watch it again (again).
Really??? Unbelievable!

Had read the stories behind the 2 footballers and the newsreader and am ok with them not wearing it. Well reasoned arguments and you can see why they choose not to wear them.

The great unwashed, moral outraged, keyboard idiots. I heard the definition of a "Snowflake" today and wanted to scream that if I'm outraged by something It'll be for something more than a fictional character on a fiction programme not wearing a poppy!!

I'm out!!
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And yet verbal abuse of the footballer (and his family) is brushed under the carpet by the "lets not upset the cash cow of the Premier League" (I know Stoke are are now Championship!!) brigade!
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Although playing devils advocate with the lad from Derry/Londonderry, he needs to get amongst his history books, and in particular read up on the 10th and 16th Divisions who fought in WW1.

Or is he just virtue signalling?

I'm in agreement in the main, there shouldn't be a pressure to either wear it or not wear it, and I'm 110% certain that some of the BBC Luvvies who are forced to wear it are incandescent about it. Freedom of speech is also the freedom to disagree.

I'm of the opinion that the Poppy is hijacked by those who have alternative agendas, and is in danger of being seen as so much more than what it's original intent was; simply to remember the dead and those who suffer from acts of war, which is why I've never been particularly impressed with the White Poppy either.

On the other hand, the increased revenue for the Royal British Legion is doubtless appreciated for those who still suffer, and if our children learn that war has a high price and it may prevent another war, then that's maybe a good thing?

Oh, it's a minefield (pun intended) and no mistake!

I thought it was so simple and black/white - and me a former Soldier of 25 years and three wars!

I'm confused now. Should I or shouldn't I be remembering, and should we force footballers to do the same? Can't remember Ossie Ardiles wearing one for Spurs in November 1982...where was the outrage then?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrichie View Post
Although playing devils advocate with the lad from Derry/Londonderry, he needs to get amongst his history books, and in particular read up on the 10th and 16th Divisions who fought in WW1.

Or is he just virtue signalling?

I'm in agreement in the main, there shouldn't be a pressure to either wear it or not wear it, and I'm 110% certain that some of the BBC Luvvies who are forced to wear it are incandescent about it. Freedom of speech is also the freedom to disagree.

I'm of the opinion that the Poppy is hijacked by those who have alternative agendas, and is in danger of being seen as so much more than what it's original intent was; simply to remember the dead and those who suffer from acts of war, which is why I've never been particularly impressed with the White Poppy either.

On the other hand, the increased revenue for the Royal British Legion is doubtless appreciated for those who still suffer, and if our children learn that war has a high price and it may prevent another war, then that's maybe a good thing?

Oh, it's a minefield (pun intended) and no mistake!

I thought it was so simple and black/white - and me a former Soldier of 25 years and three wars!

I'm confused now. Should I or shouldn't I be remembering, and should we force footballers to do the same? Can't remember Ossie Ardiles wearing one for Spurs in November 1982...where was the outrage then?
I could get into the an argument about James McClean...but i won't...the boy has a balancing act to perform....people may not like him...but he still has a right not to wear it....surely that freedom is what the the soldiers of both the wars fought for ?
The poppy is an emblem that should be worn with pride and remembrance.....but it should NOT be forced on anyone to wear it.
I think we are all in agreement here.
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My late Uncle Alec was a prisoner of the Japanese in WW2 and was forced into working on the Burma railroad. He witnessed atrocities so bad, that he hated the Japanese for the rest of his life.
He became a peace activist after the war, and refused to wear either a red or white poppy, because he considered it a worthless act.
WW1 was supposed to be the war to end all wars, yet during it, in 1916, Churchill ordered the naval shelling of Dublin. In 1919 Churchill ordered the bombing of the Bolsheviks in Russia, in order to try to stop the Russian revolution. In the 1920's Churchill ordered the bombing of tribesmen and villages in Iraq and Afghanistan.
In short, there has probably been wars every year since 1918, and it continues to this day in Yemen, Syria, parts of Africa, Afghanistan and Iraq.
So, like my Uncle Alec, I see little point in observing one or two minutes silence and wearing a little red disc.
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You're conflating the war to end all wars with showing respect for fallen servicemen and women from all backgrounds in that and subsequent conflicts.

Poppy non-wearing is a choice they have, for whatever reasons, and is a consequence of the very freedoms we enjoy today bought with the blood of fallen.
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We went to the town memorial with our son and his scouts group today. When we arrived we felt guilty to be without our poppies but there were some available. What struck me was the range of ethnicity in the gathering in the town centre. I'm sure there were Brexit fans amongst them and it wouldn't occur to them. The number who gave their lives in the war including antipodeans is chilling. Macron is right about the trends being worrying, especially when Trump prefers to stay in his room and watch cartoons and fox.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0brzkzx

Worth a watch.... incredible !!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
You're conflating the war to end all wars with showing respect for fallen servicemen and women from all backgrounds in that and subsequent conflicts.

Poppy non-wearing is a choice they have, for whatever reasons, and is a consequence of the very freedoms we enjoy today bought with the blood of fallen.
I'm all for remembering the horrors of wars, and if people choose to wear poppies, that's fine. It's traditional to suggest "the very freedoms we enjoy today (were) bought with the blood of fallen." But is it true?

Surely the First World War was a nationalistic power struggle, and nothing to do with preserving human rights, democracy, tolerance or freedom. At the risk of over-simplifying, the blood of the fallen bought nothing, and if we are to respect them we should commit ourselves to doing anything we possiby can to avoid war.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronan View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0brzkzx

Worth a watch.... incredible !!
Just finished watching it; that's how documentaries should be made. No "experts" giving opinions with the benefit of hindsight, no attempts to judge 20th-century history from a 21st-century perspective, just letting the facts speak for themselves.

It was worth watching the closing credits just to see the number of people involved in its production. That was a massive undertaking!

Now if they could just do the same for the Royal Navy & the RNAS, RFC & RAF. . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterzo View Post
I'm all for remembering the horrors of wars, and if people choose to wear poppies, that's fine. It's traditional to suggest "the very freedoms we enjoy today (were) bought with the blood of fallen." But is it true?

Surely the First World War was a nationalistic power struggle, and nothing to do with preserving human rights, democracy, tolerance or freedom. At the risk of over-simplifying, the blood of the fallen bought nothing, and if we are to respect them we should commit ourselves to doing anything we possiby can to avoid war.
I completely agree. For WW1, its a myth we have created to 'justify' the huge sacrifice of life, just as they called it 'the War to End All Wars' in the years immediately after. We had on our side Russia, the most autocratic country in Europe, who frequently expelled, stole from and killed their minority populations in Eastern Europe. The German conscripts that the British Tommies were facing had been enjoying universal suffrage since the late 1800s. A lot of our troops had no right to vote, the property-owning qualification was only removed in 1918. Our ally France was the most eager for war out of all European nations at the time. They wanted to re-fight the war of 1870-71, regain their lost land and honour. We didn't fight WW1 for human rights, democracy, tolerance or freedom, that's for sure. You could say we chose to fight for honour, as we had an obligation to Belgium and Germany had violated their neutrality. But perhaps we fought in the misguided idea that we could tip the balance and being a victor in the war would be in the national interest, and honour was just the excuse our ruling class needed. The price would be worth paying if it knocked Germany down a peg or two. We were scared of German industry and competition in trade, but the Kaiser's army was never a threat to the UK.

All that being said, the poppy isn't just about the first world war, and it is a cause which is worth supporting more than any other, in my opinion. The armed forces would be the first to put their lives on the line in defence of our country, if we ever needed defending. They need to know the country is behind them, because it doesn't always seem that way.
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Surely it's more about remembrance than ideology.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy OPlastic View Post
Surely it's more about remembrance than ideology.
Its always been two-fold, which is part of the problem. Its about remembrance, but it is also about supporting current veterans, just as it was in the years immediately after the first world war. I can see why some people have political objections to the poppy because of the support that the Royal British Legion gives to current veterans. Not everyone in the UK loves the British army.

I've not got a problem with those that don't want to wear a poppy, but I have no objections myself. Its a good reminder every year, and the Legion do good work. I hope those that choose not to wear a poppy also feel that those that sacrificed their lives are worth remembering, even if they don't want to be seen as supporting today's veterans.
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To me, personally, it's absolutely nothing to do with commemorating a war (any war) - it's remembering the fallen. Husbands, sons, fathers, brothers who died in the course of a war that they individually may or may not have been fighting for any reason other than duty. And many of them not willingly.

I wear a poppy in remembrance of those who died. That's it. Nothing to do with the why's and wherefore's or circumstances of their deaths.
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