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View Poll Results: Which Airport plan would work the best?
Heathrow expansion - 1 runway 0 0%
Gatwick additonal runway 0 0%
Heathrow 1 runway + Gatwick additional runway 0 0%
Heathrow 2 runways + Gatwick additional 0 0%
Heathrow + Gatwick + Northern expansion (Full expansion) 1 33.33%
Northern expansion only 1 33.33%
New 5 runway airport (Somewhere convenient) No expansion of existing airports 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

 
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(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 12-05-16 Thread Starter
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Airports

The big infrastructure issue of the time.

Do we build a new runway at Heathrow or Gatwick seems to be the question. I don't think this is anywhere near enough and we are not thinking about the long term. We are short on airport capacity NOW, a new runway will alleviate that issue but it will take probably 10 years to be operational, by then we will be hugely short of airport capacity even with a new runway.

What do you see as the best option?

I think we need to scrap HS2 - who seriously thinks spending £40bn getting to birmingham 20 minutes quicker - while destroying green belt land and some very pretty villages, is worth the money.

for £40bn we could build a lot more.

A new runway at Gatwick, 2 at Heathrow, expansion or Luton or Stanstead, expansion and possible new runways at Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle and Glasgow. That would future proof us in airport capacity, by spreading it around the country gives better links to the areas that suffer under investment.

But what do you think?



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I was listening to a discussion on Radio 5 last night. An industry expert claimed that pretty much every airport in the country apart from Heathrow and Gatwick have some spare capacity.

I think you're right about HS2 and I haven't come across anyone who wouldn't agree with you. Even regular travelers who might theoretically benefit aren't convinced, at least partly because they expect the cost to be prohibitive. to spend £40bn (which is likely to be £80bn when done) on a big ticket project that will benefit a tiny number of people when the country is skint and the transport infrastructure outside London is crumbling makes no sense at all.

In answer to the question, what will happen is that either Gatwick or Heathrow will be extended. There is always a bias biased towards investment in the capital at the expense of everywhere else and that will continue. George Osborne can appear on the news saying "Northern powerhouse Northern powerhouse Northern powerhouse Northern powerhouse Northern powerhouse" as often as he likes but that won't make it an actual tangible thing. In another 5/10/20 years the extended airport will be at capacity and the one that wasn't extended will be too. In 100 years Heathrow and Gatwick will have joined up and will extend as far north as Corby. There will be shuttle flights to get you from your terminal to the departure gate.

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I think part of the problem for the "northern airports" is that they are all kind of the same size and offer similar-ish flights but there are so many of them.

From Leeds - at a distance the equivilent from me to Gatwick, about 90 miles (in which there are 3 airports for me) There would be Manchester, Liverpool, Doncaster, Leeds-Bradford, East Midlands, Humberside, Newcastle, Tees Valley... apparently even blackpool has an airport... with all of them its not really a surprise there may be spare capacity
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We could encourage business to go north instead so we could get more effective use from "northern airports"?

Guess not...

The more important question is who is the most important member of the cabinet; and whose constituency is worth the most votes that can be sacrificed?

We know London is always going to be the biggest hardon creating place in the country as far as business goes, so we may as well expand Heathrow to 2 more runways and extend Gatwick. They'll only cry about it endlessly if they expand northern airports instead.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greener123 View Post
I think part of the problem for the "northern airports" is that they are all kind of the same size and offer similar-ish flights but there are so many of them.
Really?

So Manchester, with 23.1m passenger movements in 2015 is similar in size to Humberside with 200,000? Even the busier of the others on your list, such as Newcastle & East Midlands are only handling around 5m. According to Wikipedia Manchester has capacity for up to 50m, limited by the number of aircraft movements allowed.

As for destinations, remove Manchester from the equation & they are all pretty similar, with scheduled flights to hub airports & a lot of flights, many of them seasonal charters, to "holiday" destinations. Manchester has flights to some 200 destinations, according to their website, many of them long haul - probably the only one on your list that can handle A380s - & enough transatlantic traffic for the TSA to be considering it for US pre-clearance.

I wouldn't consider East Midlands to be a northern airport . . . there's a clue in the name!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brand View Post
Really?

So Manchester, with 23.1m passenger movements in 2015 is similar in size to Humberside with 200,000? Even the busier of the others on your list, such as Newcastle & East Midlands are only handling around 5m. According to Wikipedia Manchester has capacity for up to 50m, limited by the number of aircraft movements allowed.

As for destinations, remove Manchester from the equation & they are all pretty similar, with scheduled flights to hub airports & a lot of flights, many of them seasonal charters, to "holiday" destinations. Manchester has flights to some 200 destinations, according to their website, many of them long haul - probably the only one on your list that can handle A380s - & enough transatlantic traffic for the TSA to be considering it for US pre-clearance.

I wouldn't consider East Midlands to be a northern airport . . . there's a clue in the name!
yes obviously Manchester is much bigger than the others, I was including it in the distance more than the size relation
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Who generates the cash and how?

When Airlines, such as Quantas, Continental, Emirates etc fly to the UK why are they doing so? Are we a terminal destination or a stop over? Do they pay a landing fee? Do passengers pay any duty for setting foot on UK soil like we have landing/departure taxes at some holiday destinations? Are there any other considerations such a flight distances and fuel capacity (I imagine not). Do we have any information about travel purpose - holiday/business - and things like point of origin? How many departure airports are determined just by flight availability? We are frequently forced to use airports we hate because they are the only departure point for our required destination.

I have just realised how spectacularly ignorant I am about air travel

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Where's the No Expansion option?
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Why would you want no expansion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greener123 View Post
Why would you want no expansion
There's already too much air and noise pollution from aviation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
There's already too much air and noise pollution from aviation.
So you don't want airport expansion even though that WILL have a negative impact on the British economy but you won't vote for Brexit because it MAY have a negative impact?

Bit of a contradiction there isn't there :hmm:
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So you don't want airport expansion even though that WILL have a negative impact on the British economy but you won't vote for Brexit because it MAY have a negative impact?

Bit of a contradiction there isn't there :hmm:
No.

That's your 'may' and 'will' and I disagree.

Quality of life is what concerns me, not just money.
Too much air and noise pollution from aviation is bad- full stop.
Much air travel -especially business travel- is unnecessary.
I am not at all convinced that lack of airport expansion would have a negative effect on the UK economy, but if it did I would accept that as a price worth paying for a cleaner, quieter environment.
If I thought Brexit would help improve quality of life in this or any other way I might be in favour of it.... but I think Brexit WOULD have a negative effect on quality of life in the UK, for many reasons, one of which is that the (current) UK govt don't seem to give a t0$$ about the welfare of citizens and would have us all choke to death if they thought it would help increase profit margins.
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The World Health Organisation estimates that air pollution causes 7 million premature deaths annually.
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You say 'new 5 runway airport (somewhere convenient)' This presumably is Boris Johnson's Thames Gateway (Boris Johnson) airport that will benefit London and be rather inconvenient for the rest of us.

I would go for the extra runway at Gatwick and Northern expansion, an option not available apparently.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaDrivingFan View Post
You say 'new 5 runway airport (somewhere convenient)' This presumably is Boris Johnson's Thames Gateway (Boris Johnson) airport that will benefit London and be rather inconvenient for the rest of us.

I would go for the extra runway at Gatwick and Northern expansion, an option not available apparently.

I wasn't directly meaning "Boris island" as it really is in a stupid place, it would take at least 3 hrs to get there from here and we're reasonably close to it, would be ridiculous from anywhere north of London.
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I blame the EU!





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Originally Posted by Tata4Now View Post
I blame the EU!





Yep, good reasoning there
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