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View Poll Results: Should we bomb ISIS in Syria
YES 8 47.06%
NO 9 52.94%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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(Post Link) post #1 of 38 Old 27-11-15 Thread Starter
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Bomb ISIS in Syria??

A very simple question, but possibly tied up in consequence?
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Why no "other" ?

If you were to be riding on the first bomb like the cowboy in Dr Strangelove I'd be sorely tempted..............
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Would civilians be killed?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
Would civilians be killed?
Given that IS fighters are apparently in amongst them to the extent that they've dug tunnels under villages, I'd say that was an absolute certainty. IS will make sure that, wherever they are, innocent people will be too.

I still want to know what the strategy is beyond bombing runs in Syria and I'm deeply sceptical of the logic that says bombing IS in Syria will reduce the likelihood of an attack in the UK. Given events in France, I think it's a safe bet that if there is to be an attack or attacks in the UK, the perpetrators are already here.

I'm not against the idea at this point but I'm not in favour either.

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Given that IS fighters are apparently in amongst them to the extent that they've dug tunnels under villages, I'd say that was an absolute certainty. IS will make sure that, wherever they are, innocent people will be too.

I still want to know what the strategy is beyond bombing runs in Syria and I'm deeply sceptical of the logic that says bombing IS in Syria will reduce the likelihood of an attack in the UK. Given events in France, I think it's a safe bet that if there is to be an attack or attacks in the UK, the perpetrators are already here.

I'm not against the idea at this point but I'm not in favour either.
This is it for me.

"degrading capability" - unproven.
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The poll is loaded as ****
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Two questions:

To what end?

Has such a bombing campaign ever actually achieved any kind of stated aim?


I think we'd be better surved spending the money
on propaganda and border/embargo enforcement.

Why is Turkey dealing with then for oil? Stop it or we boot you out of NATO.

Saudi and Quatar still channeling funds?
Cancel visa for all their citizens.
Seize all their money, boats and properties and declare them persona non grata until they clean up their act.


21st century warfare with no civilian casualties.

Aah, one can dream....
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NOT smart for the UK, IS seem to be ignoring us at the moment but if we start an (ineffectual) bombing campaign in Syria with our 2 spare jets I bet we'd move right up their wishlist again...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
Why no "other" ?

If you were to be riding on the first bomb like the cowboy in Dr Strangelove I'd be sorely tempted..............
The reason I did not put an "other" is because I believe it will be a straightforward yes or no at the house of Commons vote (when or if it happens).
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The reason I did not put an "other" is because I believe it will be a straightforward yes or no at the house of Commons vote (when or if it happens).
Please give me a straightforward yes or no to these questions then?

Will the attacks definitely reduce the threat of terror attacks and counter the spread of ISIS in Asia, Europe and the Middle East? Or will it increase the risk, and just diversify the risk?

Will the bombing have a major impact on ISIS? How do we know this?

Will this impact, if there will be one, be "war-winning" or are we committing to many months or even years of bombing, with no predicted boots on ground strategy?

Can such a campaign be successful without ground forces?

If we do not install ground forces, who will capitalise on the sometimes marginal gains potentially provided by bombing raids?

Does the bombing not potentially open the doors to other radical groups? I couple of years ago it was the taliban, then al qaeda - now ISIS. Who else are significant parties in the region?

What attempts have been made to cut off the funding, oil revenues and arms supplies to ISIS under security council resolution 2249?

What could be the impact on civilians in Syria?

What effort has been made to gauge potential for unintended consequences?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
Please give me a straightforward yes or no to these questions then?

Will the attacks definitely reduce the threat of terror attacks and counter the spread of ISIS in Asia, Europe and the Middle East? Or will it increase the risk, and just diversify the risk?

Will the bombing have a major impact on ISIS? How do we know this?

Will this impact, if there will be one, be "war-winning" or are we committing to many months or even years of bombing, with no predicted boots on ground strategy?

Can such a campaign be successful without ground forces?

If we do not install ground forces, who will capitalise on the sometimes marginal gains potentially provided by bombing raids?

Does the bombing not potentially open the doors to other radical groups? I couple of years ago it was the taliban, then al qaeda - now ISIS. Who else are significant parties in the region?

What attempts have been made to cut off the funding, oil revenues and arms supplies to ISIS under security council resolution 2249?

What could be the impact on civilians in Syria?

What effort has been made to gauge potential for unintended consequences?
Why are you asking me? I have not put a for or against argument, however those voting in parliament may well ask themselves those same questions and use them to gauge whether they vote yes or no. Thats why it's a yes or no vote.
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The question is entirely wrong.
Right one is what particular moment we ( I mean you ) would get in to gain maximum of political points from IS destroy.
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Vote "yes" and be seen as a good flag waving Brit.

Vote "no" and be daubed as a stinking pinko communist peacenik hippy islamist jihadi luvva.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headgasket14 View Post
Why are you asking me? I have not put a for or against argument, however those voting in parliament may well ask themselves those same questions and use them to gauge whether they vote yes or no. Thats why it's a yes or no vote.
I'm not simply asking you. I'm asking anybody who is thinking of pressing the "yes" or "no" buttons.

The questions needs to be considered. Just as sincerely, the consequences of inaction need to be considered.

My worry is that a large majority of the population are being swung by the media towards indiscriminate bombing without a clear strategy, in spite of Cameron's 36 pager.

The perpetual attacks on Corbyn's questioning stance are a moral slight on the editors and the readers who swallow the lines unthinkingly.
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Vote "yes" and be seen as a good flag waving Brit.

Vote "no" and be daubed as a stinking pinko communist peacenik hippy islamist jihadi luvva.




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IS ranks have already swelled since bombing started.
Are they not now estimated to be 3 times as
large as when bombing started?
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Why would our govt want that?
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Every 'collateral' innocent victim killed by bombing will have surviving relatives and loved ones with good reason to hate the bombers. Some of them will hate enough to join IS.

Maybe we should bomb Brussels, there are apparently IS there too?


IMO bombing should only occur to support united nations approved ground forces.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
Please give me a straightforward yes or no to these questions then?

Will the attacks definitely reduce the threat of terror attacks and counter the spread of ISIS in Asia, Europe and the Middle East? Or will it increase the risk, and just diversify the risk?

Will the bombing have a major impact on ISIS? How do we know this?

Will this impact, if there will be one, be "war-winning" or are we committing to many months or even years of bombing, with no predicted boots on ground strategy?

Can such a campaign be successful without ground forces?

If we do not install ground forces, who will capitalise on the sometimes marginal gains potentially provided by bombing raids?

Does the bombing not potentially open the doors to other radical groups? I couple of years ago it was the taliban, then al qaeda - now ISIS. Who else are significant parties in the region?

What attempts have been made to cut off the funding, oil revenues and arms supplies to ISIS under security council resolution 2249?

What could be the impact on civilians in Syria?

What effort has been made to gauge potential for unintended consequences?

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I'd absolutely love to bomb the living schit out of all the ISIS bastids. I guess we all would.

But has anyone come up with an informed idea of what will really happen as a consequence?

I only have a little brain. It's too small to have a real opinion on whether we should bomb them. I just don't know. Going into Iraq was effectively a (delayed) knee-jerk reaction to 9/11. Which begat another Iraq war. And now we have ISIS. Would ISIS exist if Iraq hadn't happened? I have no frikkin' idea.

But the way things are going, the Crusades are on their way back. At some point, Israel will be attacked by these nutters. If they felt really threatened, I think they might actually use nuclear force.

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'Bombing' is that 'yee-haa!' Hollywood happy ending response to a problem. For that reason alone, I suspect it has its supporters.

If Syria is bombed in order to target ISIS, more innocent people will be killed
If ISIS causes atrocities outside of Syria (a la Paris), more innocent people will be killed
If you have family living in Syria, would you want the place bombed?
If you have family living in the places threatened by ISIS, do you want them to be at risk?

I guess this is a central issue (Syria) and a local one (ISIS cells all ready to go when told in strategic cities). I'm not sure bombing in Syria sorts the local problem. I don't know how much a bomb costs to drop, but I think I maybe happier if that money was spent on better surveillance/intelligence/boarder controls in order to preventing attacks at home.

That said, will that alone stop ISIS HQ spreading if its heartland in Syria is unchallenged? And if it is unchallenged, given how ISIS is growing, what does that mean long term for the security of other countries it has on its target list?

Tricky one.

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