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View Poll Results: Should MacLaren have been punished for the spy scandal
Yes 19 61.29%
No 12 38.71%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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(Post Link) post #1 of 33 Old 26-07-07 Thread Starter
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Should MacLaren have been punished

It seems that MacLaren have escaped any form of punishment for the espionage saga in formula 1, but is it the right decision??
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

the official statement from the WMSC reads
" The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code. However, there is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship. We therefore impose no penalty."

so they are found guilty of having the document but not using it...yeah right !!
 
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

IMO No but for same reason as Gary I voted yes when it should have been no !!

Last edited by nomad; 26-07-07 at 15:19. Reason: Voted wrongly !!
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Oh dear, you poll is ambiguous, I read your post, and voted 'Yes' (it is the righ decision), but then I realised that the poll said should they have been punished - which I would have voted 'No' for
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by mikebrown View Post
so they are found guilty of having the document but not using it...yeah right !!

Was it not an Employee that was found in possession of the document not the Company
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

yeah..a senior member of the company who makes key decisions for the company..
 
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by mikebrown View Post
the official statement from the WMSC reads
" The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
Of course they should be punished - the statement confirms that they were in breach of the code. According to the statement, it's the possession that breaks the rules, not whether or how they were used.

This is a fudge-up. No point having a rule if it's not to be enforced.
 
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

So why not copy the document in the Company's HQ rather than the local photocopy shop then

Just wondering fella's BTW not saying we are right or wrong in our respective opinions !!
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by nomad View Post
So why not copy the document in the Company's HQ rather than the local photocopy shop then
I think that's the crux of it - I believe Coughlan was intending to use the information for his own personal benefit in securing a new job with a different team, as opposed to the benefit of McLaren.

Since the WMSC is saying they're inclined to ban both Coughlan and Stepney from the sport, I guess they see the situation the same way - a single crooked employee doesn't make a team crooked.
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by mudhut View Post
Of course they should be punished - the statement confirms that they were in breach of the code. According to the statement, it's the possession that breaks the rules, not whether or how they were used.

This is a fudge-up. No point having a rule if it's not to be enforced.
I disagree. All it would take is for a McLaren employee to then post a McLaren document to Ferrari, for Ferrari to then be in breach of the code - regardless as to whether they used the information or not...
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

The Interview Stepney & Coughlan had with Honda, suggested to me that they were gathering information to use when they had moved to Honda or another team,
If that was their plan, then I don't think Coughlan would have used the info at Mac, therefore the decision was correct IMHO.

It's not completely put to bed yet, Mac can still be punished if it's discovered any of the info was used for their Car
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

This sort of thing probably has been going on for years and nothing has been mentioned so far. Anyone but Ferrari probably wouldn't have bothered with taking the case to court.

I remember a couple of years ago the got funny with Toyota because one of their employees (Who worked for Ferrari in the past) used a similar design on the Toyota's aerodynamics.

Even Colin Chapman used to copy good ideas from rivals cars.
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Ok, I have some sympathy with the point of view that the info might not have been intended for the use of Mac, but that's not what the rules say, according to the statement.

It would be easy enough to ensnare somebody in another team Gary but to have been caught in possession rather suggests the recipient didn't destroy the stuff immediately. I'd suggest that an honourable course of action would be to do so. Tempting though...

Marksie - I think you are right - there could be more of this to come. The satatement didn't say an unequivocal "no evidence". Could this mean that there is "some evidence"? Dunno and maybe we never will.
 
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

If I go to a new job I take all the contacts and leads I have with me, most in my head, some in my phone.

What happens if designer of 1 car goes to different team and designs 'based' on his/her knowledge?

If the team went out and stole, or instructed someone to steal on their behalf, then bang to rights, if not, then it can be called competative advantage.

IMO
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by symonh2000 View Post
Even Colin Chapman used to copy good ideas from rivals cars.
It was usually other people copying Chapman's ideas, but lets face it, if people didn't copy Cooper's idea we'd still have mostly front engined racing cars!!
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Yeah but no but yeah but no etc.
I want to see fairness but I don't want a whole season ruined.
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Because it Mclaren... Yes
If it was Ferrari.... no

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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Er....em...I think I`ll go with jamieboy on this one....
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

I think on balance its the right decision. McLaren and honest Ron's reputation over the years for playing straight and not cheating probably carried a lot of weight. Its seems most likely it was the unauthorised act of a bunch of disgrunted job seeking idiots who didn't mind whose pool they peed in.

Ferrari are right to be pretty angry, but by comparison with Mclaren their reputation is not quite so clear cut over the years.

Its pretty certain none of the info was used, even if it was seen at upper management level, which seems unlikely.

Putting all that aside, we've got the best up front battle in F1 for years, and its all been done fair and square on the track so far IMHO, so any action against Mclaren would spoil the championship race.

So..content that no advantrage has been gained or lost by either team..I think its fair.

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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

If it were the other way round people would be screaming for Ferrari blood. Ban them from the 2007 series I reckon!
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

You might be right Simon, but Ferrari do have a historey of 'unsporting' behaviour, whilst McLaren's integrity has never been questioned. To be honest if McLaren were punished it would ruin what is the best championship since 1982
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

WTF do I know about Motorsport (although I like watching it sometimes)? But WTF?!! How could anyone say that McLaren didn't INTEND to use the info? What were they going to do, put it on the mantelpiece? DOH!!
Intention is as bad as deed!
 
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

I think Coughlan was going to take it to Honda with him...
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaLincs View Post
McLaren and honest Ron's reputation over the years for playing straight and not cheating
This is the view held by F1 pundits who's articles I've read or have heard commenting on this situation !!
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Re: Should MacLaren have been punished

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Originally Posted by VO2Max View Post
How could anyone say that McLaren didn't INTEND to use the info?
Well the possession thing all seem to centre around one man (Coughlan) but not Whitmarsh or Dennis !!

Although some of the more 'sensationalistic' British Press have implied that MW did know about it !!
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