Should prisoners be allowed to vote?? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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View Poll Results: Should we let prisoners vote?
Yes, let them vote 6 9.84%
No, don't allow them to have a say. 51 83.61%
Other. Please discuss. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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(Post Link) post #1 of 57 Old 11-10-05 Thread Starter
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Hmmm Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Heard on the news at the beginning of the week that a new 'human rights' law may be passed so that prisoners can vote whilst serving a sentence.

Do you think it's fair/correct to society/the prisoners themselves?
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

The problem that this question raises with me is “why are the offenders in prison”

Usually there are two conflicting reasons

To rehabilitate them

To punish them

We always, in Britain, seem to try to walk the middle line and end up with neither

So if we are punishing them (which in my view we should be) then they should lose, not only their freedom, but also there voting rights.
We have removed them from society for a reason.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Thanks GJ - anyone else with an opinion

I would also like to hear from our overseas friends to see what rules/opinions they have to it.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

If you have broken the rules of society, why should you be allowed to continue to benefit from that society?

My personal feeling on this one is no, they should not be allowed to vote. They should not have a "right" to televisions in their cells. They should not be allowed to win the bl00dy lottery .

In some cases, the criminal can be left better off than their victims. There are still many, many law-abiding citizens of this country who would consider a television a luxury that they cannot afford - so why should this be a "right" for criminals? More often than not, the criminals will not have to conpensate their victims for any losses - leaving the victim either worse off than before or (in the case of theft) facing increased insurance premiums following their claim. So how is a criminal going to feel any personal responsibility for their actions?

I believe the law should stand as a deterent. By breaking the law, a criminal has waived their rights to the benefits of that society. Prison should be grim. Prison should be hard. Prison should not be a bl00dy holiday camp with free board and lodging . You really shouldn't want to end up in prison. And, if you should end up in prison, the outside world should look so good in comparison that rehabilitation will be your choice. The only way rehabilitation into society will work is if the prisoner wants to be part of society again (rather than using it as a way to just get out and pick up where they left off ).

For too long now, our society has cleaned up the mess that other people have left. Criminals know they can get away with a slap on the wrist. Our citizens don't report crimes, because they know nothing will happen and there is a good chance they will be on the receiving end of some form of revenge.

In Singapore, they will publicly flog you for vandelism. You may think that is inhumane, but you sure as hell don't get the level of vandelism there as we get here. If you know what the consequences of your actions will be, you will think twice about doing it.

Sorry to rant, but I believe the state of law & order in this country to veering dangerously close to anarchy, and no-one seems to want to do anything about it.

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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

There is so many points in this thing.

I think that it depends why are they there. In Finland people who refused to go to army have to go to prison and people like those should have the right to vote. They haven't done such o horrible thing.

But people who have done worser crimes (rape, murder etc) shouldn't have that right. I don't know how are things in Finland, I don't know if the prisoners can vote.

There really is so many points and guestions. It's not that easy to say.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

If you commit a lesser crime, then you spend less time in prison.


However, I still maintain that you should be deprived of social luxuries (including the right to vote) while you are serving your sentence. This is part of the punishment.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

How is it a democratically elected government if a section of the society it serves had no option to vote? I feel voting in elections is a fundamental right of all citizens, do prisoners lose their citizenship?

Also on a side note, prison does not work and it is not a nice little holiday with a personal telly. Hard prisons do nothing but breed stronger and more hatefilled individuals who are then just unceremoniously released back onto the street.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffynnon
Also on a side note, prison does not work and it is not a nice little holiday with a personal telly. Hard prisons do nothing but breed stronger and more hatefilled individuals who are then just unceremoniously released back onto the street.


Hmm, you're right.
























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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffynnon
How is it a democratically elected government if a section of the society it serves had no option to vote? I feel voting in elections is a fundamental right of all citizens, do prisoners lose their citizenship?
What a load of rot. If you break the law why should you be allowed to vote for those whose role in life is to make and uphold the law? No , prisoners do not lose their citizenship....perhaps they should. However, they gave up the right to freedom in all its senses when they stepped across the line. Once they've done their porridge, fine let 'em vote, but whilst they are at Her Majestys pleasure, forget it.

We've gone waaaay to soft in this country, 'bout time some good old fashioned common sense and discipline was brought back.

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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

I suppose your the arbitrator of common sense? Lose their citizenship adn you say I am talking rot.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

some extreme views here but i dont think they should be allowed to vote, do you honestly believe that someone in prison cares.

pasi should send a poll to all the prisons and see how many of them voted when they were on the outside

another point, if a prisoner is in for a minor offence he wont be in for long so the chances of missing polling day are quite slim.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

In the US, not only are you not allowed to vote if you've been in, or are are in prison, but you are also not allowed to vote (especially in swing States like Florida) if the spelling of your name is close to that of a convicted criminal, but interestingly, this last part is true only if you are African American or any other demographic group that might have been inclined to vote for Gore instead of Bush....

Click here for a Greg Palast article about this:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

You should read "Stupid white men" by Michael Moore. Theres a whole bookful of "interesting" facts about that first George.dubya Bush election victory(/theft) .....
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

PS the ones who do the real crimes never go to jail....

just the stupid and the desperate and the poor ...
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

No, they shouldn't vote - they've been removed from free society on the grounds they're not fit to be in it, so how can they be fit to influence it?

Not being able to vote is a known consequence of imprisonment therefore, if you want to vote, don't do the crime.

Also, they should be working in jail to support themselves & if not the cost of their stay should be stopped out of their pay afterwards with their tax.

Why should I have to pay board & lodging for a criminal?

On the other hand, I'm supportive of paying for the NHS, and the principle behind the dole/job seekers allowance (not sure on its application) - those who can't help themselves should be helped.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Not sure if I've got this right but I think I remember someone pointing out that the law currently stands that if you've ever served time you can never vote. I'd be in favour of making the law so that you can't vote in prison but when you're released you should be allowed to. I think that's what this current piece of legislation is intended to do.

I expect it's probably been given some Sun or Daily Mail spin to make it sound a lot worse than it is.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Well, if that's true I agree entirely.

But, I always thought this only applied when you were in jail. Once released all your rights returned?

However, must say I'm undecided about this one...most part of me says you do the crime you take everything that goes with it. But another part of me is thiking about human rights and the unchallengeable right to vote as a "human".

...aaarrgghhhh.

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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

I must say that I have grave concerns whenever human rights are mentioned in connection with criminals.

It's strange how you never hear about victim's human rights being protected - the right not to be mugged, burgled, assaulted or even murdered - or the right not to have to cope with the consequences of these actions largely alone, while the droves of "do-gooders" flock to re-habilitate the poor, unfortunate criminals.

As far as I'm concerned, the ability to vote is a previlige, not a right - and one that all criminals should forfit whilst they serve their well-deserved (if distressingly short, in general) sentences.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Quote:
Originally Posted by daKlone
I must say that I have grave concerns whenever human rights are mentioned in connection with criminals.
Not saying you feel this way, but your statement above is the perfect embodiment of what's wrong with America these days.

During the Iraq "war", Bush, Rumsfeld Wolfowitz, Cheney, Ashcroft & Gonzalez have all argued that human rights are not important for "enemy combatants" (ie criminals), and that "quaint" documents (their words) such as the Geneva Convention and (the guarantees of) the US Consitition for basic human rights and humane treatment do not apply. It disgusts and angers me that the leaders of my country have pulled the US in such a barbaric direction - the whole lot of them should be tried for war crimes...
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Nah, if you're in the nick, you lose your bloody franchise! PC !!!!!! from the European Court of Human Rights!!

Jeffrey Archer would have been allowed to vote for himself, FGS!!!
 
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Quote:
Originally Posted by daKlone
I must say that I have grave concerns whenever human rights are mentioned in connection with criminals.
The right to food, shelter and warmth are basic human rights. Should they be denied to prisoners too? So what about prisoners of war or prisoners of conscience? They have all broken someone's law somewhere.

We all have human rights for a reason...alluded to in the post above by Charlie. The world would be an even sorrier place than it is now without at least some acknowledgement of this.

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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

"The right to food, shelter and warmth are basic human rights"

Yes, basic human rights are there for everyone, that's very true. But I don't call having the right to vote or being able to buy a lottery ticket....or being able to write a novel about your time inside and make a fat profit from it, as being basic human rights .
 
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

It's been a while since I read the abridged version of the Human Rights Act but I seem remember that the right to vote was in there, buying a lottery ticket or writing a book and getting rich from the profits are another story.

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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Couldn't they just request a postal vote?

Asking prisoners to pay for their own stay as a tax after leaving would be difficult I would of thought as they first have to get a job. Would you employ a criminal?

As for writing a novel about ones time inside and being able to sell it and make money; I thought that was the whole idea? Rehabilitation? Whats wrong with being enterprising? If people are prepared to buy it then.... Besides they could pay Cheradnine's tax.
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Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillyspeed
"The right to food, shelter and warmth are basic human rights"

Yes, basic human rights are there for everyone, that's very true. But I don't call having the right to vote or being able to buy a lottery ticket....or being able to write a novel about your time inside and make a fat profit from it, as being basic human rights .
And that's all I'm saying - that basic rights (including the right not to be tortured, the right to an attorney and a fair trial - all of which have been denied by Bush and his cronies) should be respected, and that all of the other things you mentioned are worthy of debate. I would think that depending on the nature of the crime, a majority of the proceeds from profits for a book written while in prison should be used to compensate the victims...
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