159 MPH - What Do You Think??? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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View Poll Results: 159MPH - Acceptable on Public Roads
Innocent - In the right conditions this is fine 13 20.63%
Guilty - Nobody should risk 159 mph on public roads 37 58.73%
Jealous - Wish I could "hone" my driving skills in my Alfa! 10 15.87%
Other 3 4.76%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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(Post Link) post #1 of 42 Old 19-05-05 Thread Starter
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159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Following the excellent thread in the Rant Room, it might be interesting to see how AO would have judged PC Mark Milton...
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Jealous!!!!
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

hmm...
Not sure how to answer this. the thing is that as a high speed police driver, he actually has a general dispensation that allows him to exceed the speed limit - so he was NOT breaking the law. So, in a court of law, he is innocent.
As an internal disciplinary matter perhaps he was guilty - but then a point of the court case is that his police department have NO guidelines on when he can and can't break the speed limit - so I think were he to get a lawyer they'd be in trouble trying to take internal disciplining measures against him either.

Anyway, having heard more of the details of it, I think his actions were to a large extent reasonable anyway. The details of where and in what circumstances he sped lead me to agree that he was probably doing so perfectly safely.

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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

I suppose, reading back my musings, I've answered my own question. Innocent it is.
BTW, he did not do 159mph, neither did he do 80 in a 30 zone.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza
...... the thing is that as a high speed police driver, he actually has a general dispensation that allows him to exceed the speed limit - so he was NOT breaking the law. So, in a court of law, he is innocent.....
I'm still not convinced that he (or any other emergency service driver) are exempt from the law. In general, they will not be prosecuted for speeding in the line of duty, but they are still bound by law to drive with due care and attention.

In this case, he was not breaking traffic laws in the line of duty. The courts may therefore take a view on whether there is a case to answer for (whether or not he is eventually found guilty/innocent).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza
As an internal disciplinary matter perhaps he was guilty - but then a point of the court case is that his police department have NO guidelines on when he can and can't break the speed limit - so I think were he to get a lawyer they'd be in trouble trying to take internal disciplining measures against him either.
This is where is starts to get interesting. The same body that encouraged him to "test his car & abilities" on the public road are the ones that took him to court for doing just that. Go figure . The police need to get their act together on this one, and not make a scapegoat out of one poor PC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza
Anyway, having heard more of the details of it, I think his actions were to a large extent reasonable anyway. The details of where and in what circumstances he sped lead me to agree that he was probably doing so perfectly safely.
I can't/won't comment on that, as I have not read enough (unbiased) details on the case to make a proper judgement. I would hope that the courts have heard all these relevant details and therefore came to a just decision on the case.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

I say good on him. I also think it's an incredibly sensible and brave judge who made the decision which is very unusual these days!


Imagine if there was a car chase and the police driver pranged the car and hurt someone. If he then said "Well, I've never been allowed to drive this car over 70mph but I had to do 120 to keep up with the nicked Impreza".... the scaremongering tabloids (and their readers) would have a field day!!


There have been numerous people on here who have claimed 130/140/150 from their Alfas on a public highway, without the benefit of 4 a.m., blue lights on the roof and police training, but no-one goes banging their chest about that do they?
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicksAlfas
There have been numerous people on here who have claimed 130/140/150 from their Alfas on a public highway, without the benefit of 4 a.m., blue lights on the roof and police training, but no-one goes banging their chest about that do they?

No, but by the same token no-one here would argue much if they were caught and had the full weight of the law thrown at them.....
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

It's not so much that he did it - it's more about the legal holes about what he did.

I think police drivers need legal protection in these situations every bit as much as the public should be able to expect safe roads. The law needs to be clarified (and publicised) on this subject, and police procedures needs to tightened up so that there is no question of risk to public safety when high-speed police drivers carry out the training that is so essential in their line of work.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Was what he did illegal, he was not on a "shout" and therefore should abide by the law.
Should police be able to "test" cars, yes, they need to assess how vehicles react in the real world, race tracks are a totally different feel.
Basically he exceeded the speed limit by more than double, he was not on a "shout", therefore he broke the law.
The fact that he is a policeman should not come into the equation.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

But he didn't break the law...

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements when on emergency calls or for training purposes.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

I thought this poll was about the new Alfa 159.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

how many of you guys would be sticking up for this copper if he had crashed into something, someone etc

he was giving it some stick and when caught he used the excuse that most of us would have been advised to use

no better than a joyrider
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdabilda
But he didn't break the law...

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements when on emergency calls or for training purposes.
But from what I understand, he wasn't on a training exercise he had taken the car without any authority, therefore has broken the law.
Of course there are so many rumours I'm not sure what the truth is anymore.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLLUM
how many of you guys would be sticking up for this copper if he had crashed into something, someone etc
But he didn't. And from the information we've heard, a lot of that is down to the fact that there was nothing and noone to crash into, as he did it with noone and nothing around.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdabilda
Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements.......... for training purposes.
Only if the correct exemptions are applied for through the correct channels before hand. This officer did not do this. This is as documented in the forces own Emergency Vehicle Speed Exemption Policy 2004.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Guilty, not just because of the speed as I'd probably do something just as daft if I could but because it looks like he didn't have permission to be in the car.

At the end of the day he was doing a silly speed, got caught and wasn't training or on a shout....therefore had no real justification for the speed. In his line of work examples should be set for others....what message does this give out?

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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Stupid. The police throw the book at us when we 'enjoy' a little excessive speed, regardless of how safe we consider it to be at the time, and here they are doing the same thing.

Like they tell us, there are places to do this kind of speed, and the roads today are NOT the right place. If they need to train new drivers, use an airfield or a track day.

Now that'd be fun, running rings round some plod cars on a track day
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

I think that speed was stupid when it was not necessary. Im a Sergeant and once I was in the police car and the driver was doing 80mph for no apparent reason. I had to tell him to slow down to the legal 60mph limit.
High speed is necessary but only in an emergency
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Even when high-speed-chasing another vehicle (driving at, say, 159mph), a police car should not drive 159mph on open roads. It would be similar to shooting back at a criminal in the middle of a crowd. Rather, call for reinforcements further down the road to create a "moving barrier", to slow and stop the chased car.

US Highway Patrols are pretty good at doing just that. I even found myself once behind a police car doing a traffic-containment maneuver where the car gets in front of you with the lights on, starts swerving across the lines and slows the whole highway down. Time to think "uh?" and some nutzoid shot past everyone from the commuter lane, later followed by 3 police cars. A few miles down the road, thanks to the open space, said nutzoid had been stopped on the side of the freeway with said police cars around him. No one hurt. Pretty impressive. And I got something to talk about at coffee break that day! Excellent...
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Seems he's now been discharged after his aquittal was overturned.

Police are there to enforce the law, not break it and whilst he may be exempt when in pursuit he certainly isn't at other times

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/5284962.stm
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobda
But he didn't break the law...

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements when on emergency calls or for training purposes.
He was out for an unofficial spin though
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

I'm not too sure. The police obviously do need to practice, but that sort of speed does seem highly dangerous.
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slegg
I'm not too sure. The police obviously do need to practice, but that sort of speed does seem highly dangerous.
They can do 'tests' in controlled conditions and under supervision. He was obviously out for a bit of fun and thgought he was above the law
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg
They can do 'tests' in controlled conditions and under supervision. He was obviously out for a bit of fun and thgought he was above the law
I'm not sure if that is obvious. But perhaps in future the police should record when they are going to be on training missions!
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Re: 159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Breaking the law is breaking the law
If we apply some twisted logic that those who are there to enforce the law are above the law when it suits them that Git that gave me a littering ticket is free to litter and traffic wardens can park where they like.

I'd have believed the training thing if he had asked permission from his Co and it had been pre agreed but it wasn't.

Like me he was caught bang to rights and should accept his punishment.

As for his qualifications of being a trained pursuit driver does this mean that if I get a racing licence then I can do 159mph on public roads as I am qualified at high speed driving I think not.
 
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