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Poll Room You got it, just random polls in here

View Poll Results: ???
May's deal 2 6.67%
No deal 4 13.33%
Remain in EU 23 76.67%
Other? 1 3.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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(Post Link) post #1 of 32 Old 20-11-18 Thread Starter
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Gimme a B

how would you vote today?
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Same as I voted before. All that has happened since is that it's before more and more obviously the right choice.

Mind you, I'm sure people on the other side think the same, but God knows how.
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A poll to see if anyone has changed their minds might be more interesting, what with the entrenched manner of most people's politics.
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Originally Posted by bazza View Post
A poll to see if anyone has changed their minds might be more interesting, what with the entrenched manner of most people's politics.

I agree


but I was keen to get a sense of how many were:


a) prepared to double down
b) were persuaded by the argument to exit


not that my question would elicit the nuance, I suppose
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I dread the thought of a second vote to be honest, we had the chance to vote 2 years ago and the side I voted for lost. I am just about fed up with the whole thing, it seems to be everywhere you turn, this or that is happening because of brexit. Well no-one knows for sure what will happen, its all conjecture and opinion, even when its so called experts doing the talking (no-one knows all the facts about every subject that will be effected). I feel that we need to get it done, then we can start to pick up the pieces (I'm sure it won't all be doom and gloom).
Mick.

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Originally Posted by mick.p. View Post
I dread the thought of a second vote to be honest, we had the chance to vote 2 years ago and the side I voted for lost. I am just about fed up with the whole thing, it seems to be everywhere you turn, this or that is happening because of brexit. Well no-one knows for sure what will happen, its all conjecture and opinion, even when its so called experts doing the talking (no-one knows all the facts about every subject that will be effected). I feel that we need to get it done, then we can start to pick up the pieces (I'm sure it won't all be doom and gloom).
Mick.
A second vote is a risk, no guarantee it won't be the same result or worse! I think not having another vote is a denial of people's right to decide their own future once they have all the information. The shambles that is Brexit has no easy solutions, we got in this mess with a stupid referendum, maybe we can do something to minimise the bitterness and feelings of resentment and betrayal with an 'informed' vote.
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A second vote is a risk, no guarantee it won't be the same result or worse! I think not having another vote is a denial of people's right to decide their own future once they have all the information. The shambles that is Brexit has no easy solutions, we got in this mess with a stupid referendum, maybe we can do something to minimise the bitterness and feelings of resentment and betrayal with an 'informed' vote.
A 420 billion a month turnover of a City Company lost to the Dutch is not going to do it. We need a real reality check.

It seems an appropriate juncture for Nissan to announce their move to the continent.

Rolls Royce, with a now substantial American share holding are going, it is just a question of when.

British Aerospace need permanent passport access to E.U. based Airbus production in Düsseldorf and Toulouse. So given the inevitability of their move at some time in the future; purely on economic terms it is better they announce plans "Now".

Perhaps that will provoke Parliament into doing it's duty. That being a duty to the "Wellbeing of the United Kingdom and All its Citizens". And the "Nations Wellbeing" is best served within the E.U.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaDrivingFan View Post
A second vote is a risk, no guarantee it won't be the same result or worse! I think not having another vote is a denial of people's right to decide their own future once they have all the information. The shambles that is Brexit has no easy solutions, we got in this mess with a stupid referendum, maybe we can do something to minimise the bitterness and feelings of resentment and betrayal with an 'informed' vote.
Like bazza said earlier most people's opinions are fixed pretty firmly in their minds, no matter what is said to them or who says it, their beliefs will not (in most cases) change, so a second vote would most likely have the same result. All it would do in most peoples eyes would be to undermine the peoples decision last time.
In my opinion, obviously, Mick.
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I do question whether it is politically right to have a re-vote. The referendum has happened, and in theory the government is duty bound to carry out the actions decided by the result of that referendum.

But I do agree that people were woefully informed at that point, which is perhaps a valid reason for one.

On a personal level I would love there to be another, in the hope that the result would be different. But, and I know this isn't popular, I have a certain amount of sympathy for May as there has never been anything she can do which doesn't paint her as an incompetent bad guy.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sizewell View Post
A 420 billion a month turnover of a City Company lost to the Dutch is not going to do it. We need a real reality check.

It seems an appropriate juncture for Nissan to announce their move to the continent.

Rolls Royce, with a now substantial American share holding are going, it is just a question of when.

British Aerospace need permanent passport access to E.U. based Airbus production in Düsseldorf and Toulouse. So given the inevitability of their move at some time in the future; purely on economic terms it is better they announce plans "Now".
.
"Well I don't work for Rolls Royce or Nissan
And why should people in the City of London pay themselves so much"
May well be the typical, uninformed response.
Brexit is a good excuse for many things companies have been waiting for.
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"The referendum has happened, and in theory the government is duty bound to carry out the actions decided by the result of that referendum."

Really. It checked if people were interested in leaving Europe but are they duty bound now the follow-up research has informed the people?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
I do question whether it is politically right to have a re-vote. The referendum has happened, and in theory the government is duty bound to carry out the actions decided by the result of that referendum.

But I do agree that people were woefully informed at that point, which is perhaps a valid reason for one.

On a personal level I would love there to be another, in the hope that the result would be different. But, and I know this isn't popular, I have a certain amount of sympathy for May as there has never been anything she can do which doesn't paint her as an incompetent bad guy.
The only point in this whole debate is that the first vote was not about "how" we leave. There has been a great deal which has changed since then, as the facts around the implications of the deal emerge. These couldn't be debated at the time because no one knew what deal May would get.

Now the deal has been published, from my reading, it would be the worst of both worlds to accept it. Better to stay on renegotiated terms, or to leave and try and then renegotiate after (yes, risky I know). As one commentator said last week - the deal is pointless.

The only 2 options i can see from this are a peoples vote on the deal, or a election. I'd rather have a peoples vote, as an election would risk a Corbyn Government. If we won a peoples vote then we could consign Corbyn and the ERG to history.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cue2 View Post
"The referendum has happened, and in theory the government is duty bound to carry out the actions decided by the result of that referendum."

Really. It checked if people were interested in leaving Europe but are they duty bound now the follow-up research has informed the people?
You've quoted the first part of my post, and then repeated almost exactly what I said in the second part. Seems a bit redundant.
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Thank you. i look forward to the redundancy package.
Looks like the company I work for is planning some more too. Perhaps before Christmas.

Sorry, didn't get the message the way you'd written it. Could be the stress getting to me.
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come on guys


votes in this thread, chat in the Brexit thread :cigar:
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come on guys


votes in this thread, chat in the Brexit thread :cigar:
RemaIN because I'm sane - then and now.
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Discuss.....
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Remain then, remain now, even though we'll obviously be worse off as an EU member afterwards than we were before the vote. The UK will have all the influence of the whining teenager in the corner.
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Remain then, remain now, even though we'll obviously be worse off as an EU member afterwards than we were before the vote. The UK will have all the influence of the whining teenager in the corner.
Completely disagree - in my view we'll have the same influence, possibly slightly more chance of encouraging reform, the EU having been so close to losing a senior member.
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Completely disagree - in my view we'll have the same influence, possibly slightly more chance of encouraging reform, the EU having been so close to losing a senior member.
There may be some mileage in what you say chris. I would have though the Heads of State must realize the E.U. Administrative Structure, for all the good it has done is a focal point for all malcontents within the 28 States. And unlike opposition parties in nation States, it has no voice to counter mis - conceptions.

The problem I feel lies within the E.U. Parliament. It is not just the public that feel disconnected - but National Parliaments also. And I believe Farage is one of the reasons for such feelings.

It is time to scrap the E.U. Parliament, IMHO. There is no reason why each Nation could not have something similar to our Select Committees, in this instance a "National select Committee for the E.U.", where members are elected on the basis of the proportion of each National Parliaments make up.

Their membership would be under the permanent scrutiny of their respective Houses and no one would have the luxury of a fixed term membership. Had Farage been a member of any of our Select committees, he would not have remained so for much more than a couple of ours, given his disgraceful antics in Brussels.

To adopt such an approach to the E.U. would I feel, reconnect the Electorate with what I believe is an organization Europe can ill do without.

Either way, it is not sufficient to "Tweek around the Edges", to counter the rise of the Far right.

At the very least, it would prevent the insidious activities of extreme elements of Member States, forming Covens to undermine the E.U.
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RemaIN because I'm sane - then and now.
Rema - yes I'm in!
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Completely disagree - in my view we'll have the same influence, possibly slightly more chance of encouraging reform, the EU having been so close to losing a senior member.
I think it will take years and a complete change of government and politicians to regain any trust. Yes we would still be number two or three in terms of population and / or economic size but trust and confidence has been thrown away.
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And if the choice was either May's deal or no deal?
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I think it will take years and a complete change of government and politicians to regain any trust. Yes we would still be number two or three in terms of population and / or economic size but trust and confidence has been thrown away.

Trust and confidence? The EU will look down on us as the member that caused 2 years of agro and then changed their mind about leaving. I don't think the UK would ever live it down.
Mick.
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