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Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

It apears so. What could happen if proven. The sport is going to the dogs.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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Originally Posted by gavin dack View Post
It apears so. What could happen if proven. The sport is going to the dogs.
People keep forgetting that this Is Monaco.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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Originally Posted by gavin dack View Post
It apears so. What could happen if proven. The sport is going to the dogs.
Its all a question as to when he was told that (if indeed it is true)
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Ron Denis asked the drivers to 'conserve the cars' from as early as lap 10! as no-one was challengeing McLaren, and they could have gone a lot faster. However Hamilton says he was pushing so hard in the race that he hit the barriers a couple of times????

Hmmmmmmmmmm where is the truth here? Anyway Ron has landed himself in hot water now and given the FIA a chance to punish McLaren and help Ferrari - although I think it will be a fine!

Ron didn't have to say anything did he?
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

It is true that Hamilton hit the barriers though...
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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Originally Posted by Gary Slegg View Post
It is true that Hamilton hit the barriers though...
He said it during the post race interview that he hit them a couple of times.

And again i will mention the fact that Massa was almost lapped(over a minute down in third place) so they(McLaren) were doing competitive times regardless of what Ron was trying to conserve

Last edited by PeterWolf; 29-05-07 at 08:12.
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Not Happy Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

I am still absolutely fuming over this!

It's is such total crap! Hamilton was never as fast as Alonso, not in qualifying and certainly not in the race.

Alonso had a 1.4 second lead by the second lap and over 5 seconds by the 5th, and he was something like 10 seconds ahead by the first round of pitstops, and resumed in the lead. So where the hell was this challenge from Hamilton??? The only time he caught up was when Alonso had back off to conserve his car. In the third stint both drivers had such a lead that they slowed down and ran with a consistent second a lap gap between them, about a second off their race pace, and still nearly lapped Massa (only 10 sec behind at the flag).

And it looks like it's a blanket media campaign by Max, FIA or Bernie, so they can look like they're tackling the overtaking problem in a race where it's nigh on impossible, and McLaren had such an obvious speed advantage. It's on every news show about, and they never had that much coverage when Button WON his first.

Clearly there isn't a penalty for Max and Bernie bringing the sport into disrepute.

I don't think it'll happen, but it would serve some people right if Hamilton wins his first race because his faster teamate was dq'd. How glorious!

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Last edited by Chrispy; 29-05-07 at 08:23.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Why does anyone even bother to watch Monaco every year, a complete farce of a "race". Just a jolly boys outing for the rich and famous,. They let this carry on but claim other circuits like Monza are too dangerous. Still,if they are not allowed to race each other then I guess it is safe. It shouldn't count toward the championship IMO.
 
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

This is why I prefer Moto GP and World Superbike (and just about any other bike-related racing, to be honest).

The contests are just that; there is no rider to team interface other than the pit boards and the racing is as clean, un-diluted and free of bias as it's possible to get these days.

Some of the comments made by the F1 boys when Rossi tried out a Ferrari were hilarious. Like Hamilton, I think Rossi would have seriously shaken up the order and introduced some much-needed sparkle again.

Ah well, back to two wheels for me
 
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

I think it was more like:

"You've already stacked one car this week, there's no way
you're catching Alonso, so just take it easy."
 
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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Originally Posted by alfafamily View Post
Why does anyone even bother to watch Monaco every year, a complete farce of a "race". Just a jolly boys outing for the rich and famous,. They let this carry on but claim other circuits like Monza are too dangerous. Still,if they are not allowed to race each other then I guess it is safe. It shouldn't count toward the championship IMO.
The beauty of Monaco isn't about overtaking, although when there is a pass for position, it is often spectacular. It's about threading a missile between concrete walls and armco so fast it defies belief. It's one circuit a year where this is possible, and alot of people miss the point.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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This is why I prefer Moto GP and World Superbike (and just about any other bike-related racing, to be honest).

The contests are just that; there is no rider to team interface other than the pit boards and the racing is as clean, un-diluted and free of bias as it's possible to get these days.

Some of the comments made by the F1 boys when Rossi tried out a Ferrari were hilarious. Like Hamilton, I think Rossi would have seriously shaken up the order and introduced some much-needed sparkle again.

Ah well, back to two wheels for me
While bikes are great, it's a different kind of spectacle, and I don't enjoy it as much as I do cars, it's a personal thing.

But don't fool yourself. If a team wants or needs a result, be it in F1, MotoGP, Superbikes, or any other category of motorsport (touring cars, F3, rally, anything), or even any other sport at all, just like in a company board room, the decision is made before kick off, and everyone in the team know what to do or what is expected of them. it's that simple. Professional team sports in the modern era are a business above all else.

There has never been a radio call in F1 along the lines of: "Driver, sorry mate, maybe we should have discussed this before, maybe in one of the several briefing we had before now, but we need your team mate to stay ahead of you, so would you mind letting him past? That's more of a suggestion actually. Cheers Chap"

Everything that is done professionally is pre-meditated. Simple as.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Bit of a patronising post there, Chrispy . Of course we can see that where cash and ego are involved, there is going to be pre-meditated action. There is also going to be an organic process of decision - appraisal - decision going on which does lead to changing orders, views and actions.

I didn't suggest there was a polite conversation going on between pit and driver - what I could envisage happening is drivers being told to take a particular course of action.

Regarding the bikes, there are loads of examples of riders and teams doing unexpected things and I think it's clear from the races and the championship results that, whilst there will always be a degree of manipulation, it's a lot closer to what I would define as racing.

As to all professional actions being pre-meditated, that is a subject that I'd again disagree with you on, but we'd need another thread to debate it .

Last edited by BlueEvo2; 29-05-07 at 12:33.
 
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

I doubt he could have passed FA without causing an incident so I have no issue with this (apart from the ay Ron phrased himself). WE all need to recognise how amazing Hamilton's achievments are in such a short space of time. He excellent and I'm a fan (despite my long term love for Ferrari).
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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The beauty of Monaco isn't about overtaking, although when there is a pass for position, it is often spectacular. It's about threading a missile between concrete walls and armco so fast it defies belief. It's one circuit a year where this is possible, and alot of people miss the point.
I do appreciate the skill involved,but for me it just doesn't work on tv as a race,watching qualifying on Saturday was far more exciting(as a tv programme).
What would be the consequence of having less voice communication between pit and driver. The drivers would have to be more aware of competing cars,pit stops would be longer etc. Maybe it would take away some of the advantage of the quicker teams and drivers.
Going back to Alonso/Hamilton what is there to stop the pit from making engine adjustments to slow a car down,I presume its possible? Would it be legal? Any thoughts anyone?
 
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Sorry if it's a bit patronising, but it's sometimes hard to see where people "on the outside" are coming from. I think many people would be suprised to know that before an F1 team even arrives at the circuit for a GP (on the wednesday before) they know what suspension springs. damping, geometry and aerodynamic setup they will be using, they know the gear ratios, corner speeds and fuel consumption, they know the approximate pitstop strategy and race stints they'll be doing. Even if it's a brand new track you've never been to before. Such is the demanding level of preparation.

Once you start practice there are normally only a few small adjustments of tyre pressures, front flap angle, damper settings and ride hights, that's about it.

Teams know where they expect to be, they know what the qualifying strategy is going to be, and try to predict and anticipate the strategy of the other teams. All the teams know after qualifying what laps they'll be stopping on, and what the strategy is, and they they can do from there is stop a few laps earlier in response to a rouge element on the track.

The point is that unless a something extremely unexpected happened, or a driver had a damaged car or some other performance issue, no professional team will be making finger in the air guesses on strategy. In that way it's all predetermined, so much so that punters can't ever appreciate.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

The point chaps is that there is a rule stating team orders are banned and senile Ron has gone on tape saying essentially that he issued team orders.

This is not about who was fastest, whether Massa was gonna get lapped or whatever else.

Simple really.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

I like Monaco - always have. Not all circuits have to be fast and street circuits have their place in GP racing.

What if he alternative had happened and both raced to the point where in failing to overtake an accident happened that finished both cars? How sensible is that, particularly at the start of a season. At the end of a season things could be different but there was still all to play for.

Ron Denis and the team deserve congratulating not penalising.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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Going back to Alonso/Hamilton what is there to stop the pit from making engine adjustments to slow a car down,I presume its possible? Would it be legal? Any thoughts anyone?
The pit cannot do anything. The driver can turn down the revs or adjust the map from the steering wheel.

There used to be two way telelmetry where the pit could send messages to the chassis, not the driver, but now that's banned, and the driver has to instigate any adjustment by a manual action.

This wasn't the case with Hamilton as he was consistently slower than Alonso, both in qually and all phases of the race. How the hell a slower car/driver is supposed to beat anyone who is going faster is beyond me (and the laws of physics), but still so many are saying Hamilton was robbed. Of course he was dissapointed with P2. Everyone said he was going to win. Doesn't mean he was cheated.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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The point chaps is that there is a rule stating team orders are banned and senile Ron has gone on tape saying essentially that he issued team orders.

This is not about who was fastest, whether Massa was gonna get lapped or whatever else.

Simple really.
Glad to see you back Biggie, but take off those rosso tinted glasses please.

Team orders is when you tell your drivers which one of them will win.
Asking them to take it easy on the machinery because there is no oportunity to overtake is legal, and ok with me.

I think this is and FIA witch hunt that was supposed to dissapear after a few days, but now with the british press and the Hamilton effect, it's blown up.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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The pit cannot do anything. The driver can turn down the revs or adjust the map from the steering wheel.

There used to be two way telelmetry where the pit could send messages to the chassis, not the driver, but now that's banned, and the driver has to instigate any adjustment by a manual action.
When cars aren't running brilliantly, we sometimes see them plug a laptop in during the pitstop and reset or fiddle with things. I don't recall seeing this for a while, so is it now illegal?
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Ok, but I thought Ron said: "I told my guys not to race since it was impossible to overtake without causing an accident".

It doesn't matter whether the order made sense (which it does IMO) or not, the rule simply forbids any team orders.

If he kept his mouth shut, he'd not be in this.

I say, give him a hefty penalty ($500k?) and let's move on

As I said somewhere else, Ferrari 1-2 in Canada
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

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When cars aren't running brilliantly, we sometimes see them plug a laptop in during the pitstop and reset or fiddle with things. I don't recall seeing this for a while, so is it now illegal?
That's not illegal, but it's only ever to download some more detailed data, or re send a map. Anything worth adjusting or reseting can be done by the driver on the steering wheel.

You'd also have to be in a bad way before you've got time to stop the car, plug in, do something and then go again.
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Expecting your team members not to take each other out and reminding them of that doesn't sound much like issuing team orders in the way that Ferrari used to demand that Barricello let Schumacher past and I think Irvine was told to as well.
And certainly DC visibly slowed to let Hakkinen by a few years back on Ron's orders (a huge favour that was never returned) - but this time, no I dont think so.
Ron didn't need to - there's no way young Lewis was going to catch Alonso who was out to re-assert his position.
That McLaren completely demolished the opposition is more of a reflection of how far behind all the others are, but Monaco is a unique venue - witness Scott Speed finishing 9th, ahead of some drivers who should have done better - DC, RB and Button.

In terms of the so-called lack of passing opportunities at Monaco, how come Schuy managed to go from dead last to 5th last year after his penalty arising from his qualfiying foolishness?
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Re: Hamilton told not to pas Alonso

Thanks for the answer Chrispy
 
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