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Keithyboy's car debating thread

19K views 301 replies 36 participants last post by  mj2k 
#1 ·
The other week, elder child dragged me to Fords of Winsford (big car supermarket that started long before car supermarkets were a thing) as she was fancying a newish Fiesta.

As we wandered around the 75,000 cars, I was left with one overriding thought - "How do you go somewhere that has every make and model from Jags to Dacias, all in perfect nearly new condition, and end up coming away with a Vauxhall Mokka? "

This gave me a brilliant idea for a new thread. However, I've forgotten that idea so this one will have to do.

Basically I will nominate a car then we can argue the toss over whether it's rubbish or not. The first car for discussion is the aforementioned Mokka. Is it terrible? Am I being unkind? Over to you.
 
#3 ·
I think I would struggle to get enthusiastic about any Vauxhall let alone a Mokka.

They just have an air of couldn't be arsed about them. By that I mean they are not especially good at anything, and the people who drive them tend not to be car enthusiasts.


But if I needed a cheap banger that I didn't care about just for the sole purpose of transport and nothing else I might consider one (if the price/condition/MOT status was ok)
 
#4 ·
That's pretty much my view of them. We have an Astra pool car at work and there's really nothing wrong with it. It's reasonably comfortable, it's quiet, it's quick enough, the handling is ok, etc etc. However, when I drive it, I worry that people will think it's mine. We have Toyotas and Kias that aren't as nice yet when I drive them, I couldn't care less if people think they are mine.
 
#5 ·
I used to go fishing by the farm where Ford's of Winsford started!!

Later in life I was in their large site with the ex and left nearly having bought a Ford Ka for her!! The salesman did let me have a go in WRX Subaru which was fun. In the end we got her a Peugeot 206.

If I'm honest I would go Vauxhall over Peugeot!
 
#6 ·
I work at BCA Manchester and some days drive about 200 cars in one day alone.

The Mokka is with all modern Vauxhall’s which is kind of built to a specific price with a specific demographic in mind.
To answer the question, yes they’re terrible cars.
I pretty much hate stepping inside all modern Vauxhall’s, they can be problematic too. Lots of them come in with error codes or a coolant light showing on the dash.
They don’t seem to age well.


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#12 ·
I don't get why they called it the Vauxhall Adam. Sure the Opel version makes sense as it was named after Adam Opel.


The Vauxhall version should be called the Vauxhall Alexander.
 
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#20 ·
I don't mind the 500 or the Mini. In fact, I quite like them. They are shamelessly retro designs taking styling cues from icons from the past and that's fair enough, it seems to be what people want. Vauxhall's equivalent would be the Viva HA which didn't really have any styling at all so the same approach wouldn't really work. Instead it looks like they just pinched ideas from everywhere. Personally I'd rather have the upscaled but otherwise shameless copy of an old car rather than a facsimile of the upscaled but otherwise shameless copy of an old car.

anyway, enough of Vauxhall. The next car for debate is the original Honda NSX.
 
#137 ·
Which wouldn't be hard as the 348 has to one the worst Ferraris going...poser ability yes handling no...I have driven a NSX briefly, as they say never meet your heroes, I had a Cerbera at the time & yes it handled better but was no where near as much fun re heart rate etc...Easy to drive yes & I think that was the problem, after stepping out of a madman (I'm going to kill you TVR) into a well balanced , safe feeling car it neutered the feeling a bit. The owner of the NSX drove my Cerbera & was equally puzzled how anyone would buy one as they were so manic lol Horses for Courses :rotate:
 
#22 ·
New NSX or old NSX? Old one I guess.

I guess it was a good car because everyone says it was and it was solely responsible for making "supercars" usable. It's debatable whether that was a "good thing" if you like your super cars techy, unapproachable, exotic, unreliable and with no switchgear from a Civic.

Which leaves us with styling because we've all seen them and can all have an opinion. Personally, I've never warmed to it. The shape leaves me cold. It's mildly derivative and doesn't look especially exotic.
 
#23 ·
The Honda NSX has to be a car that would excite you if given the keys.
As of actually owning one. If you can get your head around the vulgar switch gear bespoke to most JDM cars of that period, the fact it only has something like 275 BHP not making it as fast as you would expect, and the insane price tag of a 1st generation model one. Then it would make a nice car to have. But something tells me the S2000 is a much more worthy car to own for the price.
The current one would be insane to drive, but so is the price tag of one. Probably why in America they try to up market it as an Acura.


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#24 ·
Ah well, there's part of the issue. It's a supposed supercar that handles well allegedly (pfft) and has good build quality (guffaws), easy to drive and live with :)rolleyes:) but it has pretty feeble power even by standards of the day and isn't especially quick. It's everything a supercar of the time shouldn't be!


And I still don't much like its styling. It's too much like a stretched Prelude.
 
#25 ·
I like the original NSX with the pop up lights, not so keen on the later pedestrian friendly version.

The engine was derived from the unit in the Honda legend, which was an enlarged version of the engine fitted to the Rover 800

Sure 275bhp wasn't a lot of power even then, but it made good use of it, the car was light and unlike many supercars of the day it was reliable enough to use every day.
 
#26 ·
I wouldn’t say no to an old NSX. It doesn’t bother me it shares an electric window switch with a Civic - must have been a good switch. The weird thing is, I never warmed to them either. But I’d favour one over a 348, esp the Type R version like this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/j4yPjvSuvgxRNpji8

It’s a bit like a McLaren, I suppose; nerdy, rather than ‘passionate’. Got to be worth a try ?
 
#27 ·
I'm not really a supercar person. I'd feel silly driving one, I don't know what I'd do with one, I couldn't get near its limits, and I'd probably die trying.

This is different. It's sort of like a supercar for people who like the idea but can't really be arsed with the reality. You could use it for work, it'll work all the time, you can have it serviced at your Honda dealer with a normal car service interval. In short, it's the supercar for me.

I reckon I could thrash it without an untimely death spoiling the fun too. It's plenty quick enough for my needs.

I know not everyone likes the styling but I think it looks neat and unfussy. Possibly the opposite of what cars like this should be.

I also like Hondas. When I passed my test my Dad had a mk2 Civic c/w with 5-speed box (rare on cars made in 1982), and a glorious 12v engine that revved past 6000rpm when most were out of puff at 4000.

That Ayrton had a hand in the NSX and was an owner is just the icing on the cake.
 
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#29 ·
This summary of the NSX is pretty much spot on I think


It is almost a polar opposite of this. The TVR Griffith which I owned a few years back.
 

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#28 ·
Not convinced how much yer man did to ‘develop’ the NSX, more like drove it and said ‘nah’. then thrashed it a bit later.

5 or 6 years ago I would have said I liked it and it was cool. I fear it is now a bit over-hyped and over-priced. But then everything is :(

The S2000 would be my choice too. Had the 916 instead and I think I now regret that choice a tiny bit.
 
#31 ·
Hopefully the new Griffith designed by Gordon Murray will capture the same spirit.

If rules and regulations allow...

I must admit though mine would have been much better if it had been fitted with ABS brakes. The rears wheels would lock up very easily under anything more than moderate braking.
 
#32 ·
Similarly, it's hard not to like the brutal honesty of the Griff (most TVRs actually). Unlike the NSX, this might well kill you at the first opportunity just to remind you how much it loves you and what fun you're having listening to the V8 burble and marvelling at the lack of ABS, TCS and any other safety net modern manufacturers stick into their cars.

Is it a "good car" though is quite a hard question. In essence, by any rational, logical appraisal it most patently is not a good car. But looking at it as an old fashioned, hairy-chested sports car, a toy for weekends and trackdays and even as an investment it is a good car.

I've never been that rational or logical......
 
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