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(Post Link) post #1 of 22 Old 27-04-19 Thread Starter
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Cloned?

My parents got a PCN through from a London borough yesterday. The photo clearly shows a car with their number plate - but it isn't their car. In fact, it's a completely different make and colour.

Thankfully, this should make it easy to contest. I have sent a rejection back to them explaining this.

But what do we think has happened? Has the owner of this car just picked a number plate at random to put on their car to avoid charges? But surely if so they would aim for a similar car - otherwise they might get away with automatic stuff, but the first time they pass a police car with an ANPR system it'll show up on their screen as the wrong car type and immediately raise suspicion?

Is the reality that the owner of the other car has probably just messed up their number plate and got a single digit wrong somewhere?

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Last edited by bazza; 27-04-19 at 19:34.
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Cloned?

Perhaps they defaced their own reg by altering a P to a B, for example.

Or it’s a “pool” car used to commit crime which has no RK or insurer.

Last edited by Nickhoughton567; 27-04-19 at 20:41. Reason: Missed “no” out.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 22 Old 27-04-19 Thread Starter
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The plate picture was very clear, didn't look tampered.

The council must have consulted DVLA to get my parents address to send the PCN - but they had make down as 'unknown' in their paperwork strangely.
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A couple of personal anecdotes relating to this:

When I first left school and worked in a garage allocating pool cars someone requested a particular car quoting the reg. I told them that we didn't have that vehicle and was taken to the parking lot where low and behold there it was. A closer inspection showed different plates front and rear. The body shop had put the wrong plate on following a repair.

A few years ago I received a PCN for doing 78mph in a 50 limit. The reg and the car details were correct but at the time I was 60 miles away and the car was in a "secure car park" covered by cameras. I was lucky to be able to prove my whereabouts as I was signing in to a secure building only a couple of minutes from the time of the incident and offered this as evidence. Therefore it must have been somebody else using the car was the reply. I offered the fact that the car was parked and covered by cameras and that I could account for the mileage on the odometer therefore not my car. It took several weeks of proving innocence in this case. I eventually received a letter saying that no further action would be taken.

It seems that once a camera has got a reg number then you're assumed guilty until proven innocent.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 22 Old 11-06-19 Thread Starter
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They got another 3 PCNs in quick succession, so I think we can conclude that the guy knew what he was doing, and had a false plate so he could get away with parking wherever he wanted.

Strange that he didn't pick a number from an identical car though, you could find one in seconds by simply looking on autotrader.

In the end we reported to the MET who put the plate on their database to be stopped if seen. We haven't had any more PCNs for a fortnight so I suspect he's been nicked.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 22 Old 11-06-19 Thread Starter
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The annoying ones were from councils who allow you to pay the fine over their website, but to 'make representation' (i.e. tell them they're wrong) you have to send a letter by post.
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Fake/cloned plates is big business

BBC News - Firm confronted about supplying illegal number plates
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-45452978
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Its strange how there are now many companies who can supply plates without you having to supply any information nowadays.

In the past, I used to knock up plates at the BMW dealership I worked at, they needed 2 forms of ID, V5 doc, all of which had to be photocopied and kept on file - the actual system (Hills) required you to tick a bunch of boxes confirming you'd seen the information before it would even print the plate.

I was under the impression this was a requirement by law, along with plates displaying the dealer/supplier and the relevant BS info for the plate's reflective material.

The last pair of plates I bought, just had to enter my reg online (could have been any reg), select what info I wanted put on the plate, which could have been none, and they were sent via post without me having to provide any information.

The stick-on one I just bought for the front end came from eBay, is the legal size, spacing and font is standard and is reflective - its like a regular plate, but a sticker - again no information or proof of identity required.

Unless the loophole is they have to be stated as for 'off-road use only' or classed as show plates.

Posting from my phone - excuse spelling mistakes
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(Post Link) post #9 of 22 Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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I believe that is indeed the loophole.
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To be legal plates need to have a BSI approval mark, as well supplying plate maker postcode and name.

Even if the plate is correct in every other way it should fail MOT's etc.

In practice is anyone ever going to know? It isn't like the police would see it as you drive past or cameras would be able to see that it was missing.
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I recently bought some plates for Mrs. V’s car from Halfords, they needed several official forms, my identification, a DNA swab and a litre of blood, and then it took 40 minutes and several “Have you done the plates yet?” to get them done which takes about 5 minutes. ��

The son in law bought his from eBay, half the price and no questions asked. ������
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So Newham council - the great bunch of blithering dipsticks - have rejected my parents letter explaining that it isn't their car. Despite being sent proof of this happening in the council next door, and the police number, and the fact that ITS A DIFFERENT CAR IN A DIFFERENT COLOUR.

To accept this rather salient fact, they want my parents to take photos of their car from every possible angle and mail them to the council - once again refusing to use any technology at all.

I will be ringing them in the morning and trying to patiently ask them why the hell they're making a pair of septuagenarians jump through ridiculous hoops when they could very easily prove to themselves that it's not the same car by consulting the DVLA data which they've ALREADY CHECKED to get their address in the first place.
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That is pretty pathetic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
So Newham council - the great bunch of blithering dipsticks - have rejected my parents letter explaining that it isn't their car. Despite being sent proof of this happening in the council next door, and the police number, and the fact that ITS A DIFFERENT CAR IN A DIFFERENT COLOUR.

To accept this rather salient fact, they want my parents to take photos of their car from every possible angle and mail them to the council - once again refusing to use any technology at all.

I will be ringing them in the morning and trying to patiently ask them why the hell they're making a pair of septuagenarians jump through ridiculous hoops when they could very easily prove to themselves that it's not the same car by consulting the DVLA data which they've ALREADY CHECKED to get their address in the first place.


Get Watchdog on the case, or better still the Daily Mail or the local paper with your parents holding the letter while looking glum and pointing at the car!
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That is ridiculous.

If it went to court I would imagine any judge would be really pi**ed off with them.
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I rang and complained, but eventually had to settle on following their requirements. Apparently they give the DVLA a reg number and the only info they get back is the name and address. Doesn't change the fact that I can use the reg myself to find out the make, model and colour in about 30 seconds with an MOT history check.

For what it's worth, I put a strong complaint in the letter to them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
I rang and complained, but eventually had to settle on following their requirements. Apparently they give the DVLA a reg number and the only info they get back is the name and address. Doesn't change the fact that I can use the reg myself to find out the make, model and colour in about 30 seconds with an MOT history check.

For what it's worth, I put a strong complaint in the letter to them.
Send them an invoice for your time and expenses
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With enforcement outsourced to cameras, this is really big business in London.

Stick a random plate on your car and you’ve got 21 days of free parking, bus lane abuse and speeding on the A40 elevated section. At the end of 21 days, swap onto a new set. You have zero chance of being caught by a policeman. The car is probably stolen and uninsured as well.

London councils are staffed by morons - literally people who are too thick to get a decent job in London. I’d let them take it to court for a laugh.
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Our on-street residents parking is administered in Sheffield. I contested a ticket as they’d failed to send a reminder. They said they don’t but they had sent a reminder for our other car. There’s a phone on the wall in the Council building but hardly worth using it though.
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With enforcement outsourced to cameras, this is really big business in London.

Stick a random plate on your car and you’ve got 21 days of free parking, bus lane abuse and speeding on the A40 elevated section. At the end of 21 days, swap onto a new set. You have zero chance of being caught by a policeman. The car is probably stolen and uninsured as well.

London councils are staffed by morons - literally people who are too thick to get a decent job in London. I’d let them take it to court for a laugh.
Why 21 days?

Oh, because of the time taken for a PCN to go out, the real car owner to report it as cloned, and the ANPR cameras on police cars to start looking for it?
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Yes - you blow through your first speed camera, the clock starts.

+10 days - PCN lands on the doorstep
+14 days - real owner of number plate says “wasn’t me”
+18 days - police ask for proof
+21 days is the first point at which plod might be interested in the number plate.

Plate goes in the bin, new ones made. Clock starts again.

Next time I’m a passenger on the A40 elevated, I’m going to run the numbers of the cars that bomb through at 60 - there are loads. They’ll all be cloned.

We did this from the pub when the local travellers invaded the village green. 60% were either “not known” to DVLA, or referred to a different car. Including the rather nice 911 that was doing donuts on the grass. Police were there, didn’t give a ****.
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