Philosophy graduate looking for a career... Alfa related or otherwise... - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
General Alfa Discussion Strictly Alfa Romeo talk only!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 35 Old 22-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Philosophy graduate looking for a career... Alfa related or otherwise...

Well here I am, I have just finished the taught portion of a Master's Degree in Philosophy and I am looking to move from part time work to a full time career. I would like to learn the ropes of the business world and gain some paid experience primarily but I am happy to establish a long term career from the outset. I was wading through graduate job pages and I figured that it couldn't hurt to ask on here whether anybody knows of anything Alfa related or otherwise. I have a degree in Philosophy and International Relations and I am half way through an MRes in Philosophy so I have excellent reasoning, analysis and critical thinking skills.

Thanks for reading,

Nick

Alfa 156 M-Jet 16v Sport
Rhoddy Harvey Bailey revalved Bilsten B8 damping kit
Eibach Pro Kit
15mm wheel spacers
Wiechers strut brace
Air freshener
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Down to half as many Alfas
AO Silver Member
 
Firstcaralfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,872
Any idea what you want to do? An analyst, HR, sales or something to do with service would lend itself to your attributes.
Firstcaralfa is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 35 Old 22-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Yeah, marketing, product design or Client management sound like interesting roles so far.

Nick
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Have you ever done a seriously physical job? If not, I'd definitely suggest it as a starting point. Its probably not going to be what you do long term, but its great to see the other side of the coin, and you learn a lot about the simple things.

I can remember going home at half 4, body shattered but brain alive, its certainly way more satisfying than going home feeling like you've had a massively hectic & stressful day although a lot of it has been sat behind a computer. I was a labourer to two bricklayers so basically shovelling tonnes of sand & cement into a mixer, pouring the resulting gear into buckets, taking it up ladders, taking bricks & blocks up ladders, lots of stacking & lifting and moving things from one place to another. I'd not want to go do it again but I am glad I did.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 35 Old 23-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Thanks Dan, I have done warehouse work before so I know what manual work entails. I'm looking for something which I can progress in, and ideally, which will make use of my education or I will waste that investment of time and money plus the skills and experience gained. I don't mind mucking in but I want to pick up some business experience at the same time.

Nick
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Have you got any contacts that could maybe give you a trial? Family/friends or parents own their own business? Usually thats a good starting point. Without prior experience in a particular industry its hard to get started in anything other than an entry level position. And a degree on your CV doesn't lend itself particularly well to being taken on in entry level positions, as I think employers assume you will be off as soon as you find something better.

What field are you doing part time work in at the moment?
Pud237 is offline  
Status: T-5 Days to Unicorn Paradise
AO Platinum Member
 
TheGrimJeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: France
County: Riviera
Posts: 38,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
Have you ever done a seriously physical job? If not, I'd definitely suggest it as a starting point. Its probably not going to be what you do long term, but its great to see the other side of the coin, and you learn a lot about the simple things.
Wise words. Job in a car parts manufacturer whilst looking, to build some contacts, perhaps?

Contacting Fiat Corporate to see what they may have on offer?

Are you looking to stay in the UK or travel? Any languages...?

What about some of the emerging electric car companies like Tesla?
They may be looking for more dynamic, less traditional hires...
TheGrimJeeper is offline  
Status: AROC 916 Registrar
AO Gold Member
 
Mitch916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 8,916
Perhaps you should have done a more suitable degree?
Mitch916 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Posts: 7,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Perhaps you should have done a more suitable degree?
I have to agree, i remember when i first started out and i sat down for an Interview with Citi Bank Arbitrage team and the fella interviewing me asked me why should i hire you rather than the guy who was in just before me?

I asked him what the guy before me had studied and was told he had a 1st Class Degree in English and i then answered that my Degree was in Finance and although i had a "Desmond" at least my path towards this job was linear while it would appear the chap before me his path would appear to be random! I was offered the position but must admit that i could only stick it for 6 months as my manager was a *o*K so maybe the guy before me in the interview might have been the best guy for the job as i knew after six months that it wasn't for me.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: Down to half as many Alfas
AO Silver Member
 
Firstcaralfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Perhaps you should have done a more suitable degree?
I disagree. A lot companies have grad schemes looking for people that have a degree such as ABV's. Look at Audi/ford/fiat and a lot of others, their grad schemes seem to look pretty good.
Firstcaralfa is offline  
Status: AROC 916 Registrar
AO Gold Member
 
Mitch916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 8,916
Well I've just been through the Ford and Audi web site and none of the graduate opportunities imply that philosophy is the type degree they are looking for.

I'm not trying to be overly negative, just realistic, however it's always worth applying just because you never know.
Mitch916 is offline  
Status: Down to half as many Alfas
AO Silver Member
 
Firstcaralfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Well I've just been through the Ford and Audi web site and none of the graduate opportunities imply that philosophy is the type degree they are looking for.

I'm not trying to be overly negative, just realistic, however it's always worth applying just because you never know.
I somewhat agree with you on the philosophy aspect, however I think that the international relations part will help him out. Especially in a middle management/HR role.
Firstcaralfa is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 35 Old 23-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Thank you all for your responses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Perhaps you should have done a more suitable degree?
Maybe you could make a more constructive suggestion? But perhaps you cannot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstcaralfa View Post
I disagree. A lot companies have grad schemes looking for people that have a degree such as ABV's. Look at Audi/ford/fiat and a lot of others, their grad schemes seem to look pretty good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippecanoe View Post
Contacting Fiat Corporate to see what they may have on offer?
I have done just that! I will likely be applying to a number of major manufacturers, only some of whom request specific degrees and all of which have jobs which are appropriate for my skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstcaralfa View Post
I somewhat agree with you on the philosophy aspect, however I think that the international relations part will help him out. Especially in a middle management/HR role.
I was sure that philosophy would be more useful since for over a thousand years philosophical reasoning was the only subject that you studied. University graduates earn a degree of knowledge of a subject. By the conclusion of their postgraduate studies they have become a Master of Arts (MA/MBa/MSc) and are knocking together essays of equivalent length and quality to a three year degree course with regularity. Beyond this level you become a Doctor of Philosophy of a subject or Phd. This reflects the high level of conceptual analysis that you can apply to your subject and much of these reasoning techniques are transferable to other subjects so that other subjects such as law or psychology or sociology become intuitive tools with basic assumptions and goals rather than academic mysteries.

IR may contribute elements of statistical analysis which philosophy lacks but there are fundamental shortcomings with statistic based approaches and it is critical analysis and evaluation of superficially convincing arguments which are my speciality. Anybody can memorise facts and figures, not anyone can interpret them in four different ways and present the strength and benefits of each perspective.

As such Philosophy graduates find themselves well suited to marketing, analysis and strategy roles, client relations and PR, legal roles ( 1yr law conversion course) and civil service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
What field are you doing part time work in at the moment?
I work in a call centre for phone insurance. As you can imagine, it's driving me a bit bonkers

Nick
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutobotVanguard View Post
I work in a call centre for phone insurance. As you can imagine, it's driving me a bit bonkers
I can imagine. No chance of progression within the company? There is big money in call centres and insurance you just need to be in the right position. I mate of mine worked for CCP in York in management on very good money.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 35 Old 23-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
I can imagine. No chance of progression within the company? There is big money in call centres and insurance you just need to be in the right position. I mate of mine worked for CCP in York in management on very good money.
Yeah, if you are there when they start up you ride the wave and develop with the company. If you come in from outside or are head hunted you can make good money. The slope from the bottom is long and slippery. I didn't get a very expensive and hard won education to start at the bottom with school leavers.

Nick
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Status: Living The Dream!
AO Silver Member
 
W1NST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Preston
County: Lancashire
Posts: 1,511
The key is get a job, prove your worth and work your way up through a company. Once you start to move up the ladder that's when your analytical and presentation skills will come to the fore.

I work for a national plumbers merchant and have a BA Hons in History where I specialised in the American Civil War and Afro American Slavery. So far within my role, after 20 years I still haven't encountered any plumbers who fought in the American Civil War or any Afro American slaves!!!
W1NST is offline  
Status: She's happy to pootle
AO Platinum Member
 
Scudetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 16,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutobotVanguard View Post

As such Philosophy graduates find themselves well suited to marketing, analysis and strategy roles, client relations and PR, legal roles
Agree. But only in those companies that take a long term view of their market and business will identify with this, in my experience.

The ones that want quick returns, won't.
Scudetto is offline  
Status: AROC 916 Registrar
AO Gold Member
 
Mitch916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 8,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutobotVanguard View Post

Maybe you could make a more constructive suggestion? But perhaps you cannot...
Why do people post on a global forum surely expecting opinions but when they get an opinion they don't like, they resort to rudeness?
Mitch916 is offline  
Status: Loving the GTA
AO Silver Member
 
alfabeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Herefordshire
Posts: 3,998
When I joined a large Accountancy firm as a graduate many years ago, they didn't take any graduate with a finance/accounting degree. They wanted graduates with engineering/arts/science degrees. Anything but accounting!

Not so sure it is true today, but in my view large companies with graduate training programmes, want someone who has proven they are intelligent and can knuckle down and work. They will do the training and development, they just need the raw materials. It is worth applying to as many large companies as possible, just to get started. These programmes usually end up offering so many different types of jobs in the future.

I wouldn't rule out starting at the bottom with "school leavers". You will progress quickly if warranted. Just get started asap in something. Don't be too selective - there is intense competition for all graduate jobs as I'm sure you are aware.

Silver 156 GTA SW, Q2, Koni FSD's, Eibach springs and anti-roll bars, CDA induction, re-map, Wizard/Pud exhaust - fantastic!
alfabeat is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 35 Old 24-10-13 Thread Starter
Status: The last of the 156 Interceptors...
AO Member
 
AutobotVanguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Posts: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by W1NST View Post
The key is get a job, prove your worth and work your way up through a company. Once you start to move up the ladder that's when your analytical and presentation skills will come to the fore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scudetto View Post
Agree. But only in those companies that take a long term view of their market and business will identify with this, in my experience.
The ones that want quick returns, won't.
So the plan is to make roots somewhere and move up the ladder and out of the crowd before my quality will really be noticed. This will be helped by joining a dynamic company who value and invest in the creativity offered by graduates. My current company is all about quick ROI and has a huge turnover of staff as a result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Why do people post on a global forum surely expecting opinions but when they get an opinion they don't like, they resort to rudeness?
Sorry, I read back over your comments and I realise that you were just trying to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfabeat View Post
When I joined a large Accountancy firm as a graduate many years ago, they didn't take any graduate with a finance/accounting degree. They wanted graduates with engineering/arts/science degrees. Anything but accounting!

Not so sure it is true today, but in my view large companies with graduate training programmes, want someone who has proven they are intelligent and can knuckle down and work. They will do the training and development, they just need the raw materials. It is worth applying to as many large companies as possible, just to get started. These programmes usually end up offering so many different types of jobs in the future.

I wouldn't rule out starting at the bottom with "school leavers". You will progress quickly if warranted. Just get started asap in something. Don't be too selective - there is intense competition for all graduate jobs as I'm sure you are aware.
I hope that my age and additional qualifications (pending) will set me aside from the bulk of graduates. The plan is to apply to a number of large car manufacturers to begin with. If I cant get on a graduate scheme I at least need to move on to a company with opportunities for progression. I'm presently two promotions away from £18k and each position required 6 months before you can apply for another job plus it is paid at your previous salary for 6 months. That's a year and a half before seeing that wage if I get promoted tomorrow and it will be over three years before I approach the average graduate starting wage of £26k hence why I'm keen to move on. It served it's purpose as a part time job through my degree but 42.5 unsociable hours per week on close to minimum wage with calls in the queue is killing me off.

Nick
AutobotVanguard is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Posts: 7,721
[QUOTE=alfabeat;6688449]When I joined a large Accountancy firm as a graduate many years ago, they didn't take any graduate with a finance/accounting degree. They wanted graduates with engineering/arts/science degrees. Anything but accounting!
QUOTE]

And there in lay the reason for the current recession, i agree that many Banks choose graduates with Arts degrees etc instead of the BSc which was the normal approach and with the end result these people did not practice the "Due diligence" that is key in any Financial education, now though things have very much resorted back to normal ....... thankfully.

Last edited by EauRouge; 24-10-13 at 16:38.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: bacon
AO Platinum Member
 
ACAPULCO AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater Manchester
Posts: 29,280
i don't think the subject matter of your degree is particularly important in today's employment market, unless of course you need a very specific degree for a very specific job eg. doctor, civil engineer etc, so i don't see that a degree/masters in philosophy would be any great advantage/hindrance when looking for jobs with big companies. having a degree proves your ability to learn, understand and - more importantly - apply yourself to a challenging task. having a masters just underlines that.

as for your job hunt, nick, i think you need to have some thought about what kind of job/field you'd like to be in. i don't think you'll get very far by simply asking 'dear mr corporation, got any jobs?'. you'd be better off asking 'dear mr corporation, having you got any jobs in x department, or in x type of role? i'm interested in this because of a,b and c, and i think i can add value to your company in this area through my skills x, y and z'.

good luck with your hunt, and don't let the call centre grind you down - unless we're spectacularly lucky, we all have to start at the bottom and earn our stripes through hard work and determination before we can climb the greasy pole of corporate career-building

- Keepin' it moist -
ACAPULCO AL is offline  
Status: Petrol head
AO Platinum Member
 
cue2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 31,723
You mentioned product design. This is a subject where you do need the relevant degree. It'll take you another three years. You also mentioned marketing and there are evening courses in that subject.
cue2 is offline  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,609

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch916 View Post
Why do people post on a global forum surely expecting opinions but when they get an opinion they don't like, they resort to rudeness?
Well, in this instance, I'd say it's because your opinion was put fairly rudely in the first place.

Why do people post rudely, and then complain when they don't like the reaction?
bazza is offline  
Status: AROC 916 Registrar
AO Gold Member
 
Mitch916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 8,916
What was rude?
Mitch916 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Misc Lounges > Community Discussions > General Alfa Discussion

Tags
alfa , career , graduate , philosophy , related

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome