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Kalel
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Heavy Alfa Models

Does anyone know why Alfa Romeo have gone with such heavy vehicles as of late?

I'm talking about the Brera and the 159 in particular. Both are great looking cars but have their 0-100 times hampered by the sheer weight they are hauling.

Even the increased 2.2 JTS really doesn't compensate for the extra weight. The V6 is obviously a different story but even then, the Brera and 159 could have been a whole lot quicker.

I know that Alfas aren't just about preformance, but I would have thought the marque would have been pumping out lighter, faster models.

I raise the issue because I was going to buy a 159 with a 2.2 in it but when I saw my 156 2.0 JTS was quicker I thought, what's the point?
 
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

It's so you can tow a caravan !!!

(Wait for the incoming abuse)
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

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It's so you can tow a caravan !!!

(Wait for the incoming abuse)
So why didnt you buy a Brera instead of that ML

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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

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Originally Posted by Kalel View Post
Does anyone know why Alfa Romeo have gone with such heavy vehicles as of late?

I'm talking about the Brera and the 159 in particular. Both are great looking cars but have their 0-100 times hampered by the sheer weight they are hauling.

Even the increased 2.2 JTS really doesn't compensate for the extra weight. The V6 is obviously a different story but even then, the Brera and 159 could have been a whole lot quicker.

I know that Alfas aren't just about preformance, but I would have thought the marque would have been pumping out lighter, faster models.

I raise the issue because I was going to buy a 159 with a 2.2 in it but when I saw my 156 2.0 JTS was quicker I thought, what's the point?


Here in Europe we have pesky regulations concerning safety.
They literally smash cars into concrete blocks and measure
the damage.

If you don't get a 5 star rating from these tests, sales
are adversely affected.
Thus most modern cars are built like brick ****houses.




I'd rate a 2.2JTS Brera over a 2.0TS 147 anyday.
 
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I've seen it said that the 159 structure is so strong it would get a 6 star Ncap rating if there was such a thing. That does not happen without an awful lot of metal that has to be carried about 'just in case'. Also the platform was to be used by Saab, who would demand a high safety rating a 9-5 estate is already 1.7 tonnes so its replacement would have probably been even more.

I would not fancy running into one in my 145 or 75.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

Safety AND rigidity. It handles and rides an awful lot better than a 156.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

Interesting points about the heavy metal/safety issues relationship.
 
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

Drive one and see what you think. The overweight this is a bit overplayed TBH.

As Fraser says, the ride hadndling is much more composed that a 156. As a result, some of the fun has gone though!
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

after driving E.A's 155 (1100kg ish i think) , i'd prefer a lightweight car over the 1600kg vectra iam driving now

with any luck my 75 won't be a tank!
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

Just to add a bit of background. Cambelts aside (for once) the 156/147/GT chassis and to a lesser extent the 166 were criticised for being a bit flimsy in all departments, and the suspensions are not the most accomplished you will find.

To their immense credit, Alfa listened and went to great lengths to address these perceived quality issues with the 159/Brera. Also with the influence of Karl Heinz Kalbfell we ended up with the nearest thing ever to an Alfa built to match the Germans at their own game.

I think Alfa have succeeded, and I think the 'overweight' business has been overdone. My only quibble is that if they had produced a direct replacement for the 156, and not taken the 159 into the larger saloons segment, then I think sales would have been better. For private buyers in particular 159 is a bit big and expensive to run.

I am a bit disappointed for Alfa that 159 sales have not been better, but on the positive side the 159 is a car that is making friends with drivers new to Alfa, unlike the 156 which all too often alienated them. This means that Alfa can look forward to more repeat purchases than they have historically enjoyed.

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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I thought that Brera 159 chassis were 'overweight' due to their development being cut short once the agreement with GM went West

And yes the overweight bit has been overdone... especially here
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I think you are spot on Alfalincs. The 156 attracted a lot of buyers with its looks then failed to deliver on handling, ride (for the heavier models in particular) and reliability. The 159/Brera/Spider have addressed these issues, but people remain suspicious after the 156 experience.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I agree with Alfalincs as well, although at the time the 156 was one of the best handling cars in its class, well at least the 4 pot versions were.
It was certainly the best looking. For me the 159 hasn't got the "I want one" impact that the 156 had, and I think that has partly got something to do with its lack of sales.

I prefer the styling of the 159 to the Brera though.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

People keep on about the weight of the Brera but i cant see the problem. It's still fast enough to lose your license in one, and its looks alone more than make up for performance figures. I would buy one in a heartbeat. Best looking car on the road i reckon.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

The Brera 2.2 weighs as little as a Mk IV Golf. It's not that big a deal, and the rigidity and handling are excellent. Miles above the last generation of cars.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I don't think when it comes to road use people really want to be driving around in a really lightweight car anyway...... i mean look how popular Cayanne's are or Range rover sports et al... they ain't light. And if you want lighter remove seats / spare wheel etc etc......

You want light rocket ships.................. get a superbike / cateram etc, not a 4 seater saloon or coup...
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

Recently drove a 156 SW, a 147 Q2 and a 159 SW and saloon. TBH the 156 SW was awful, my old 156 saloon was much better. The SW felt 'loose' and coarse

The 147 Q2 was great fun, very light and quick and great handling but I couldn't buy it as it was no good for my car needs.

The 2.4 JTDm 159 SW was mine - so much more quality than both the 147 and the 156 but also the driving experience is a little blunted.

The 1.9 JTDm 159 saloon is my 'new' car - lighter than my old 159 SW, more like the 147 and the 156 SW but still a very high quality.

I know which car out of the 147/156/159 models I want to be driving and it isn't the first two as much as enjoyed owning both models previously.

Previous: Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 SXi -147 1.6 TS Lusso - 156 1.8 TS - 159 2.4 JTDm Lusso SW - 159 1.9 JTDm Lusso saloon - 159 1.9 JTDm Lusso SW - 159 2.0 JTDm Ti SW - VW Golf TDi - Fiat Bravo Multijet Sport - Volvo V70 2.4D SE Lux - Fiat Punto Evo 1.4 GP - Skoda Superb 2.0D DSG L&K Estate - Now: 159 2.0 JTDm Ti SW & Giulietta 1.4 MA QV-Line
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

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Originally Posted by dpat View Post
TBH the 156 SW was awful, my old 156 saloon was much better. The SW felt 'loose' and coarse

I tested an ex-demo 156SW abouth three years ago thinking I might buy it. I agree with your assessment and I got a saloon instead.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

2.2JTS weighs in at 1490kg with a 90% full tank (1 litre of petrol weighs .75 of a kg so fuel accounts for 47kg of that weight), 1443kg is the car weight, this is not that heavy for the most torsionally rigid car in its class. The Alfa 159 imo will prove to be the most durable Alfa built todate, deserves to sell much much more, best looking car in its class by a mile. If you want a light 159 the 1.8 only weighs 1430kg!!!
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

The weight was a slight issue as Alfa itself went back and reduced it in the MY08 cars. Yet, probably nowhere as big of a deal as the journos that reviewed the are made it to be
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

The 156 failed to deliver on handling? Are you for real?

That wasn't the case last time I took a corner doing 80km/h glued to the road.

I love the 159s looks but it felt like I was driving a bus.
 
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

They are both great cars, let's not get this into "mine is better than yours"

Cheers.
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Kalel
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

True Bigfoot. Very True.

Diplomacy personified.

And just for the record, I really do think the 159 is a fantastic model.
 
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

I have no idea why people keep going on about the weight, yes in town the 159 is no Panda (stole our 1.3mjet this morning ) but out on any good A/B road I think it handles as well as my MKV GTI did. The distinct advantage of the 159 over the GTI is those beautiful looks and the oh so comfortable seats.
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Re: Heavy Alfa Models

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The 156 failed to deliver on handling? Are you for real?
The 156 was great on smooth roads, but on UK roads it simply couldn't handle the rapid rises, dips and camber changes we have. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 156 but on some roads its lack of body control was a constant frustration to me.

And I also agree that on a short run the 159 does feel like a bus, but that's only before you get used to it. It took me a few weeks to get used to the size and weight, but it's every bit as chuckable as a 156; the difference is it can handle all road types.
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