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Is the end nigh for Alfa Romeo?

55K views 383 replies 46 participants last post by  cue2 
#1 ·
With the 4C being cancelled, and the 8C and GTV being dropped from the product road map, the car media all over the internet are proclaiming Alfa is on its dying legs and are on their way to be being flushed down the toilet of history just like Lancia. Who knows at best they may end up like Lancia, with just a single crappy PSA/Jeep based car sold only in Italy..

How did we get here? was it the 1970's poor quality and rust horror show that started the decline or ownership under Fiat with lack of investment since the early noughties coinciding with the rise and rise of the German brands?

Tonale is still due in 2021 will it arrive or will it be cancelled first?

Feeling very sad as I do like my 916 Spider..
 
#5 ·
A troubled brand...

From the news stories and sales figures, it seems fairly clear to me that Fiat Chrysler are actively repositioning/retrenching the Alfa brand. That normally means rationalising the product range, reducing new product investment and retreating from less profitable territories.

Arguably, Alfa Romeo has spent the last 50 years trying (without much success) to become a mainstream rather than niche brand, beyond its home market where it has always sold relatively well. The Alfasud (1971) was perhaps the first serious attempt to do that, then Fiat's acquisition of the brand (1986) heralded a further simplification, with the end of the rear-drive transaxle cars and a tighter integration with Fiat's cheaper front-drive platforms.

New 'Fiat/Chrysler aligned' models (MiTo, Giulietta) failed to sell well and FCA is essentially a mainstream volume producer who are understandably uncomfortable 'nursing' their (still stubbornly niche!) Alfa brand.

Perhaps they're preparing to sell it. If so, that could either prove to be Alfa's death knell or its reinvention...


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#6 ·
The view from one USA poster, Zinhead in Chicago:

"I will be the contrarian and say the PSA merger will help Alfa in the US. PSA has been looking for a way to get their product into the USA, and all of the Fiat/Alfa/Maserati Studios would be ideal to sell some Peugeot's and possibly Citroens. Adding a line of vehicles that don't compete directly with what the Italians are selling will allow Alfa to maintain a US presence and to profitably sell cars in the 10,000 to 15,000 range annually."
 
#7 ·
Alfa don’t make the 916 Spider any more. The world has changed and the Agnelli family spent some money making some new cars with a better profit margin in sectors they thought complemented the products of potential suitors. The amount of money the family has gained in share value exceeds that expenditure. This whole process of the takeover was supposed to happen before the Giulia and Stelvio needed product freshening. If you look at PSA and Renault, who were interested , both lack the ability to market premium cars and could buy into the area with Alfa Romeo, not with a new Giulietta or Mito.
 
#8 ·
When FIAT bought Alfa in 1986, it was forced to use the SAAB/Lancia/ Fiat architecture for 164 - almost. Alfa got away with tilting the McPherson struts to horizontal ( to get lower front) and introduce their rear suspension. I.e. each vehicle has its own rear suspension since Lancia marketing did not accept the SAAB rear suspension which had won a competition on ice in northern Sweden.

The 9000 lived for many years and is supposedly "best SAAB ever". Croma and Thema were replaced within some years, while Alfa had to live with 164/166 for many years - which did not help the Brand.

I Believe PSA/FCA will use Alfa as a "door opener" for the Brand - and other cars - but with limited models. To my mind: Giulia, Stelvio and Tonale are givens, but probably supported with " a little syster" to Giulia - Giulietta? - and possibly a convertible.

A Giulietta would - probably - be based on Tonale architecture.
 
#10 ·
Antti, FIAT forced Alfa, to build 164 on SAAB/Lancia/FIAT partly common architecture. Alfa cheated a bit and modified as described above. Most obvious part is the housing of the climate system - SAAB was responsibel for that. SAAB chose Swedish supplier - FIAT/Lancia/Alfa Italian.
 
#14 ·
Reorganising
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/fca-axes-alfa-romeos-planned-sports-cars-it-shrinks-brand

“FCA CEO Mike Manley disclosed the plans to “refocus” Alfa Romeo during the automaker’s third-quarter earnings call with analysts on Oct. 31.

“I fundamentally believe in the brand but we must make sure that any investments that we make generate an appropriate return,” Manley said.

Alfa’s product plans have been scaled back to reduce capital spending and make the brand profitable, Manley said.

FCA does not publish profitably for Alfa, nor any of its brands.

Manley’s strategy for Alfa Romeo is a reversal of a strategy unveiled in June 2018 to expand the brand’s lineup to seven models by 2022 and to increase annual sales to 400,000 by then.

Alfa Romeo’s global vehicle sales fell 31 percent to 67,427 cars from January to September, according to data from market researchers JATO Dynamics.

Manley said FCA will focus Alfa Romeo in segments and markets where it has been successful. "We will also maintain the brand’s premium position," he said”.
 
#15 ·
Would some one care to translate the above out of marketingspeak and into plain English?

"reduce capital spending and make the brand profitable" Does he mean that at present it is not profitable?

"focus in segments and markets where it has been successful" Which markets and which segments given the inference that over all Alfa is not currently profitable?
 
#20 ·
“The Mito and Giulietta seem to have sold well. At least around here I see them all over the place.”

Perhaps because it’s the cumulative bunch of cars from many years of sales?
But the Giulia and Stelvio have been on the market for three years or so and not many have accumulated.
 
#29 ·
There's also another thing to consider - they were much less expensive cars, which by default tend to sell better than something that starts at 40.000 Euro.
At some point, in many countries you could get a Giulietta for less than 20k...

Anyway, just going by empirical observation - the Giulietta is popular, but at least in Italy, it hasn't been nearly as widespread as the 147 was in its "heyday". Early 2000s, literally every Italian driver aged 18-40 wanted a 147, lots of them women - a slice of the customer base Alfa seldom managed to appeal to.
 
#30 ·
The “mix” is not so profitable in Italy , mainly being lower level models. As it’s never been sufficiently refreshed , the Giulietta has actually become cheaper than when I bought my first new Lusso in 2011. Updates give non-price “competitiveness”. If you don’t , then it gets more difficult to bring out a replacement as it’s reverting to the original level in the market.
 
#33 ·
Alfa was restructured up-market to make a better sales PowerPoint for a likely takeover. It’s moved to a theoretically higher profit margin to compliment rather than compete with Renault or PSA. It’s been fattened up for market without cheaper less profitable products.
 
#34 ·
I don't think building 3 SUVs and a 4 door saloon is going to save Alfa. The general public won't buy an Alfa SUV when they can have a Skoda/VW/Audi equivalent. It's no coincidence that the last big selling Alfa (the 156) was beautiful, good to drive and critically acclaimed. Only poor build quality and a terrible dealer network undid the good work and queered the pitch for the excellent 159. People have to look at an Alfa and say, "Wow, that is so gorgeous - I've got to have one". No SUV is going to evoke (sorry!) that reaction and there has to be a good dealer nearby. SUVs are bought by people who don't care about cars or driving which is not the buying profile of Alfa owners. I am really very sad that there won't be a new GTV (I would have bought one) or convertible (ditto) so it's going to be a Giulia QV for me before they stop making them as well :-(
 
#35 ·
SUVs are bought by people who don't care about cars or driving ...
Sorry. But this is just not true and goes hand on hand with French all smell of garlic and the Germans leave their towels on your seat.

I am really very sad that there won't be a new GTV (I would have bought one) or convertible (ditto) so it's going to be a Giulia QV for me before they stop making them as well :-(
Here we are in full agreement. Same thing here. I was waiting for a GTV. If it doesn't come, a Giulia QV with the 6 speed manual gearbox will have to do.
 
#36 ·
“Wow, that is so gorgeous - I've got to have one". No SUV is going to evoke (sorry!) that reaction and there has to be a good dealer nearby. SUVs are bought by people who don't care about cars or driving.

Thanks for speaking on my behalf.
I’m a person and I like a car that drives well , so the Stelvio was the choice. And there are dealers nearby-
And my wife said “we’ve got to get one”.

It’s just that we are unusual people who don’t want a Macan.
 
#38 ·
With the proposed model line up of 3 SUVs and the Giulia I don't think they're going to cut it. I find it amusing that Mike Manley wants Alfa to stick to markets where it's successful, but doesn't propose a replacement for Giulietta, which in terms of sales figures must be far more successful than Giulia and Stelvio, so far at least in terms of Stelvio.

Perhaps a MiTo replacement is a step too far for them, but that also shifted in much better volume than the Giorgio based models. Granted the profit would've been miniscule compared to the Giulia or Stelvio but they need visibility as well as profitability imo, and MiTo and Giulietta were definitely good for visibility.

Hopefully a bit of input from PSA and some of their modern smaller platforms will see to this decidedly iffy plan of Mr Manley and save Alfa from sinking.....
 
#41 ·
Maserati just discontinued the GranTurismo
https://www.motor1.com/news/381643/m...roduction-end/


A sad day, but long overdue I guess - I'm sure I read somewhere it was officially the oldest "new" car in production.

But I'm v disappointed in their last-of-line model - what a dreadful paint job :yuck: It looks like it's been designed by some chavvy teenager on work experience in their Marketing Dept. Why couldn't they do something more subtle & classy in keeping with Maserati tradition??
 
#45 ·
One problem Alfa has is that it seems most Alfistis drive old Alfas. Owning a 156, 147, 916, 159 etc doesn't help Alfa the slightest today. They need you to buy new cars. Not wait 5 years for it to depreciate and then buy a 2nd or 3rd owner car.

How many in this thread who are complaining about Alfa's current state and its future own a Giulia, Stelvio or newish Giulietta?

So this begs the question, should Alfa worry about what the owners of older Alfas think and want? Or should they worry about what owners of Giuliettas, Stelvios and Giulias think? The later are the owners who are actually supporting them.

Because I bet when it comes to the general buyer, not the handful of Alfistis out there, Giulietta owners wouldn't care about no RWD and Stelvio owners would be fine with the focus on crossovers. Meaning at least 66% of Alfa buyers who matter would be OK with what Manley is proposing. So from a corporate mentality, Manley is right. He is catering to the majority of people who actually buy new Alfas.

Food for thought.
 
#46 ·
I’ve pointed this out many times. No car manufacturer produces used cars. They do manage the first resale after the end of pcp, lease etc to maintain residuals but the number of times somebody says on here “Alfa needs a new sports car” is ridiculous. With economies of scale way beyond Alfas dreams BMW has to collaborate on the Z4.
 
#47 ·
It surely doesn't help that Alfa models have underwhelming features for the money. Even Maserati models arent worth the price tag compared to rivals. A Chrysler Pacifica is offered with a "UConnect Theatre" but a Quattroporte isn't. And yet you find similar equipment(much more premium) in Germany's top 3. So why spend all your money on brands that are clearly mismanaged and under invested when you can pick up slightly used versions? This is a sad reality unfortunately.
 
#48 ·
We have U connect in our Abarth 595 so theres your answer, dont buy a Maseratti get a Abarth 595 instead.
 
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