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(Post Link) post #1 of 36 Old 06-06-19 Thread Starter
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Modern Classic ( definition ?)....

In Alfa terms......
A 166 could be 12 - 25 years old / A 156 could be 14 - 23 years old / A GT could be 9 - 16 years old
what would qualify as a Modern Classic ...... just interested in what would be a concensus ? - Jim.
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Were they still making the 166 in 2007? Didnt know that.
I guess classic status might be more to do with how a particular car is perceived, as well as how rare or how old it is.
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A car which was groundbreaking or desireable when new but isn't old enough to be regarded as a true classic.
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Were they still making the 166 in 2007? Didnt know that.
I guess classic status might be more to do with how a particular car is perceived, as well as how rare or how old it is.
2007 ? - only going on the Wikipedia summary , so maybe 2006 built and sold in 2007.
But you get my drift , the official rolling Road Tax exemption ( historic status ) is 40 years so guess that is 'classic' ......
so less than that for a modern classic I guess!!
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I think of it as being something that's interesting and/or good that isn't in the first flush of youth but isn't old enough for free road tax. If I'm really honest, I don't care all that much. There are cars i like and cars I don't. Whether other people regard them as classics or modern classics is academic. In fact, I'd go further and say that I'm really happy if other people don't like the stuff I like because then it'll be cheaper.

Classic is defined as follows:

adjective
1. judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
"a classic novel"
synonyms: definitive, authoritative; More
2. very typical of its kind.
"Hamlet is the classic example of a tragedy"

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An insurance classification that isn't classified
10-25 year old Ferraris are called Modern classics by a few of the companies I've use or asked but the same companies did not all say a Maserati 3200 or 4200 was.
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Modern probably coincides with the 7” round headlamp and the chromed steel bumpers were replaced with dedicated parts with moulds. The moulds have long since been thrown away.
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Originally Posted by keithyboy View Post
I think of it as being something that's interesting and/or good that isn't in the first flush of youth but isn't old enough for free road tax. If I'm really honest, I don't care all that much. There are cars i like and cars I don't. Whether other people regard them as classics or modern classics is academic. In fact, I'd go further and say that I'm really happy if other people don't like the stuff I like because then it'll be cheaper.

Classic is defined as follows:

adjective
1. judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
"a classic novel"
synonyms: definitive, authoritative; More
2. very typical of its kind.
"Hamlet is the classic example of a tragedy"
"Hamlet is the classic example of a tragedy" - Applicable to Alfa Romeo. It could almost be a Greek tragedy, but for the mugs such as me, who actually believe they are something special.

But, I don’t care!
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A car which was groundbreaking or desireable when new but isn't old enough to be regarded as a true classic.
Hooray.........that's my 156
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So, no concensus at all then ( 'beauty in the eyes of the beholder' and all that ) and that is, I believe, a good thing - keeps more models alive.
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A car isn't interesting to me just because it's reached a certain age.

To my mind, a classic car needs to have represented some kind of genuine achievement/'high water mark' in it's day. It needs to be remarkable. It needs to do something incredibly well. It needs to remain a great driving experience.

The car has become a commodity, and technological convergence means that ubiquity has replaced the differentiation that used to make cars interesting. Almost all modern cars will never be classics because:

1. They don't represent something remarkable/different/groundbreaking
2. They won't last that long, because no one is passionate about them - so no one will bother to save them
3. ICE cars will probably become increasingly unfashionable, and their owners increasingly marginalised and pilloried...
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Hooray.........that's my 156
1.8 Twin Spark 156. No skirts or embellishments to obscure the delicate lines, particularly the waistline. Twinnie a great little engine. Power just right for the chassis. Classic proportions of a small saloon.

Delicate in the extreme. Feminine and all the better for it. Still looks modern and will in 20 years from now.
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1.8 Twin Spark 156. No skirts or embellishments to obscure the delicate lines, particularly the waistline. Twinnie a great little engine. Power just right for the chassis. Classic proportions of a small saloon.

Delicate in the extreme. Feminine and all the better for it. Still looks modern and will in 20 years from now.
Summed up perfectly
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(Post Link) post #14 of 36 Old 08-06-19 Thread Starter
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A car isn't interesting to me just because it's reached a certain age.

To my mind, a classic car needs to have represented some kind of genuine achievement/'high water mark' in it's day. It needs to be remarkable. It needs to do something incredibly well. It needs to remain a great driving experience.

The car has become a commodity, and technological convergence means that ubiquity has replaced the differentiation that used to make cars interesting. Almost all modern cars will never be classics because:

1. They don't represent something remarkable/different/groundbreaking
2. They won't last that long, because no one is passionate about them - so no one will bother to save them
3. ICE cars will probably become increasingly unfashionable, and their owners increasingly marginalised and pilloried...
Like this line of discussion as modern stuff does all look the same ( same design computer = same design answer ) but age is relevant in that it has to be older in order to get back to time when the more freestyle designs made the differences. The official timeline seems to be the 40 year rolling exemption ( historic classification ) which I guess does get us back to more distinctive Marques and, as you say, even then they have to be particularly outstanding verses the rest. Who knows ? , but it's good to talk.....
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Same design computer?

I’ve just retired from being one of those “ computers” and they are people driven by legislation, public taste and the Brand amongst other things.
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Take a look at cars of the 1920s. They all look alike. . . all designed by the same slide rule?
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Same design computer?

I’ve just retired from being one of those “ computers” and they are people driven by legislation, public taste and the Brand amongst other things.
Classic Status, for the most of us, is not synonymous with design. But is very much linked with the time and place in our lives, which evokes fond memories of many things, not just the car!

My Berlina 2000 was classic because of the association with my relative youth and my wife and children, at a time in our lives when things were much simpler.

So too was my Alfetta GTV 6. Prior to that, one such classic for me was a Ford Pop, side - valve. Man that was a hoot Thoroughly unreliable, Musselburgh disappeared in a cloud of white smoke, after i pored Redex down the throat of the carb. The local Bobby wasn't to impressed, but i suspect he was just doing his job and appearing Authoritative. I bet he dined out on that little incident for weeks.
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Quote:
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Take a look at cars of the 1920s. They all look alike. . . all designed by the same slide rule?
You're right.

The reason is that these early cars were essentially just 'horseless carriages' and were initially built by the same carriage builders. Horse-drawn carriages were (in terms of their design evolution) a well developed and rather 'samey' product by the time the motor car came along in late Victorian times. So early cars all looked the same because the horse-drawn carriages that they were based on all looked the same.

The motor car with its own visual identity was (arguably) developed in the 1930s when we started to see the beginnings of 'aero' design...
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Suspect the 156 will become a classic, but i wonder if it’s still a bit too new to qualify as a YoungTimer? Give it another five or ten years.

The GT will qualify one day too, but the question is to what degree. Lovely car though it is, I’m not sure if it caught the public attention in the same way previous Alfa coupes - or even the 156 - has.
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I asked the question about the Gt
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/gene...g-its-age.html (Is the GT finally showing its age?)

That was almost 7 years ago!
It must be a classic by now.
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(Post Link) post #21 of 36 Old 08-06-19 Thread Starter
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Same design computer?

I’ve just retired from being one of those “ computers” and they are people driven by legislation, public taste and the Brand amongst other things.
Exactly , input data dictates output data ( final product all the same )......
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Suspect the 156 will become a classic, but i wonder if it’s still a bit too new to qualify as a YoungTimer? Give it another five or ten years.

The GT will qualify one day too, but the question is to what degree. Lovely car though it is, I’m not sure if it caught the public attention in the same way previous Alfa coupes - or even the 156 - has.
That is interesting , as I ( Alfa Newbie ) have pretty much short-listed to either a 156 or a GT as my final target for purchase - right now it feels like the GT would be a modern Car whereas the 156 would be a Modern Classic ( even though they could both be say a 2004 car )....IMHO.
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Does a Transit look like a VW T6 ?
Not exactly.

Same “data”. Different theme designed by different people.
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Or maybe classic is a combination of these three things:

Classic as recognised by/relatable to the general public (hence why a GT maybe a slow burn)

Classic as recognised by car fans/car industry for something notable (even for just being a fab car, like a 156)

Classic as recognised by the manufacturer as one of its better moments (156 and GT, yes; Arna... probably not)

May if those three all align you have a classic. But this ‘classic’ stuff is all a bit arbitrary anyway, so just stick it out for 30 years and see what happens 🙂

A driver is always faithful to a car that's always faithful to its driver.

Sometimes in the darkest hour, love comes shining through.
Then it doesn't seem so far from me to you.
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Does a Transit look like a VW T6 ?
Not exactly.

Same “data”. Different theme designed by different people.
I accept there is more to it than just my data input analogy, but advances in both materials and technology are shaping things more and more
was my real ( badly explained ) point - but it got this thread underway .......viva la difference.
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