Front, Mid or Rear ? - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
General Alfa Discussion Strictly Alfa Romeo talk only!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 37 Old 17-05-08 Thread Starter
Status: Pedalling like f**k
AO Silver Member
 
Der Teufel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 3,107
Hmmm Front, Mid or Rear ?

What defines whether a car is front, mid or rear engined ? For example is a Porsche rear engined ? What about a VW beetle ? or an MR2 ? Thoughts please...
Der Teufel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Nicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

It depends where the engine is relative to the axles. If the engine is ahead of the front axle, it's front-engined; behind the rear axle it's rear-engined; between the two axles and it's mid-engined.

Simple
Nicky is offline  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,598

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Which means there are two different kinds of mid-engined. Sort of.
bazza is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
Which means there are two different kinds of mid-engined. Sort of.
Front-mid engined would be between the axles but in front of the driver, rear-mid engined would be between the axles but behind the driver, I think..
Pud237 is online now  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,598

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Yep, that's what I was referring to Pud.

I think the general opinion though is that 'front-mid' engined is cheating
bazza is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
Yep, that's what I was referring to Pud.

I think the general opinion though is that 'front-mid' engined is cheating
In what sense do you mean cheating? As in its not a "proper" mid engined car?

It is good dynamically though, its a shame Alfa couldn't have got the front wheels further forward or the engine mounted further back.
Pud237 is online now  
(Post Link) post #7 of 37 Old 17-05-08 Thread Starter
Status: Pedalling like f**k
AO Silver Member
 
Der Teufel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 3,107
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Hmm.. so the Ferrari 360 is mid engined because the engine is behind the driver but in front of the rear axel, So to be a true mid engined car you'd have to be sitting on it ...like a bike ? I think I get it.. So what's this then ?

http://www.forix.com/8w/altpower/stp-paxton-front.jpg


http://www.autopuzzles.com/I51.jpg

Last edited by Der Teufel; 17-05-08 at 17:34.
Der Teufel is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Nicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Mid-engined, with stiffer springs on the left
Nicky is offline  
Status: w/o Alfa:subject to change
AO Member
 
sayitpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 108

Member car:

156 2.4jtd

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

The McMerc is technically mid engined, but many list it simply as front.
The reason it has such a long bonnet was to get the engine block entirely behind the axle line.
sayitpunk is offline  
vantasticc
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Teufel View Post
Hmm.. so the Ferrari 360 is mid engined because the engine is behind the driver but in front of the rear axel, So to be a true mid engined car you'd have to be sitting on it ...like a bike ? I think I get it.. So what's this then ?

http://www.forix.com/8w/altpower/stp-paxton-front.jpg


http://www.autopuzzles.com/I51.jpg
Thats a mid engine but to one side

as said above a mid engine would be between the the driver and rear axle and rear wheel drive

rear engine is behind the rear axle (vw porker)

front engine in front of driver and front wheel drive but the engine maybe above or just behind the front wheels but still classed as front engine as in front of the driver
 
vantasticc
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

my smart has its engine above the rear wheels

so mid rear

My fiero is mid engine

My 75 is front with rear wheel drive

My scoob is front with 4 wheel drive

Think I have them all covered

Sold my front wheel drive 145 and spider....
 
Status: Back in V6-land!
AO Silver Member
 
Ronald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 3,336

Member car:

Not an Alfa

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Teufel View Post
Hmm.. so the Ferrari 360 is mid engined because the engine is behind the driver but in front of the rear axel, So to be a true mid engined car you'd have to be sitting on it ...like a bike ? I think I get it.. So what's this then ?

http://www.forix.com/8w/altpower/stp-paxton-front.jpg


http://www.autopuzzles.com/I51.jpg

Mid-engined...
Ronald is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Nicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vantasticc View Post
Thats a mid engine but to one side

as said above a mid engine would be between the the driver and rear axle and rear wheel drive

rear engine is behind the rear axle (vw porker)

front engine in front of driver and front wheel drive but the engine maybe above or just behind the front wheels but still classed as front engine as in front of the driver
Not necessarily - either the front or rear wheels (or both) could be driven
Nicky is offline  
vantasticc
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky View Post
Not necessarily - either the front or rear wheels (or both) could be driven

True but give me one example of a rear engine front wheel drive
 
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Nicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

I agree But in the interests of pedantry, I felt I had to pick you up on it, because the position of the engine does not necessarily dictate the driven wheels
Nicky is offline  
vantasticc
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky View Post
I agree But in the interests of pedantry, I felt I had to pick you up on it, because the position of the engine does not necessarily dictate the driven wheels
Kipper
 
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Friggertool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East Spiral Arm of Galaxy
Posts: 3,402

Member car:

Brera 3.2

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Porsche Boxster/ Cayman is mid engined, 911 rear engine.
Friggertool is offline  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,598

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
In what sense do you mean cheating? As in its not a "proper" mid engined car?

It is good dynamically though, its a shame Alfa couldn't have got the front wheels further forward or the engine mounted further back.
Well, as you say, if the engine is between the axles, then it's mid-engined.
But the 'classic' mid engined layout is with the engine just ahead of the rear axle, and behind the driver.
So plenty think of the front-mid engine layout as just a way of having a front engine layout and pretending that it's not.

The other question is: If the engine is above an axle, how do you decide which it is? Do you use where the centre of gravity is?
bazza is offline  
Status: -
AO Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 6,530
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vantasticc View Post
True but give me one example of a rear engine front wheel drive
The Gregory, built in the USA in 1949. For some strange reason, only one prototype was built...

'Front mid-engined'? A term invented by the marketing department of a company which was trying to convince the world that it's saloon-based coupes were competing with Porsche, I suspect!
Dave Brand is offline  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,598

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brand View Post

'Front mid-engined'? A term invented by the marketing department of a company which was trying to convince the world that it's saloon-based coupes were competing with Porsche, I suspect!
See? That's exactly what I meant about people thinking mid-engined with the engine ahead of the driver is 'cheating'!
bazza is offline  
(Post Link) post #21 of 37 Old 19-05-08 Thread Starter
Status: Pedalling like f**k
AO Silver Member
 
Der Teufel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 3,107
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza View Post
See? That's exactly what I meant about people thinking mid-engined with the engine ahead of the driver is 'cheating'!
So how come the MR2 is classed as a mid engined card and the engine is behind the driver ? does there have to be a be a specific distance from the rear axel to qualify perhaps?
Der Teufel is offline  
Status: Busso Power!
AO Silver Member
 
Biscione's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,284

Member car:

147 GTA Q2

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

I would think the majority of the engine would have to be in front of the rear wheels for it to be mid engined, perhaps this is the case in the MR2?
Biscione is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 37 Old 19-05-08 Thread Starter
Status: Pedalling like f**k
AO Silver Member
 
Der Teufel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 3,107
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar 145 View Post
I would think the majority of the engine would have to be in front of the rear wheels for it to be mid engined, perhaps this is the case in the MR2?
Hmm, like your thinking 'ar'
Der Teufel is offline  
Status: Back in a Quad
AO Platinum Member
 
OperationAlfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 23,457
Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Teufel View Post
So how come the MR2 is classed as a mid engined card and the engine is behind the driver ? does there have to be a be a specific distance from the rear axel to qualify perhaps?
and the MG TF.
OperationAlfa is offline  
Status: Daddy bear
Global Mod Team
 
bazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Congleton - The centre of
Posts: 44,598

Member car:

AMG C63 estate

Re: Front, Mid or Rear ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Teufel View Post
So how come the MR2 is classed as a mid engined card and the engine is behind the driver ? does there have to be a be a specific distance from the rear axel to qualify perhaps?
I think I've confused things, sorry.

There are 3 set-ups, but for the purposes of explaining what I mean, there would be 4. Starting from the back:

Engine behind or above rear axle = rear engined

Engine ahead of rear axle, but behind driver = (rear) mid engined (this is the classic mid engine set-up - like the MR2)

Engine ahead of driver, but behind front axle = (front) mid engined

Engine over or ahead of front axle = front engined

The third one is arguably just a front engined car with the engine shunted back a few centimetres so the manufacturer can claim extra sporty credentials.

Seen an offensive/spam post? Report it! Click the or button next to the post.
AO Rules - AO Gallery - AO Classified adverts - AO Club - AO Traders

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams


"You know, sometimes the world seems like a pretty mean place."
"That's why animals are so soft and huggy."
- Calvin and Hobbes

To err is human, to moderate ursine.
bazza is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Misc Lounges > Community Discussions > General Alfa Discussion

Tags
front , mid , rear

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome