Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!! - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 79 Old 12-05-08 Thread Starter
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Not Happy Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Bought a 159 2.4 JTD from an official Alfa dealer a couple of weeks ago, registered Oct 06, 13k miles one previous owner. When questioning the history of the car the dealer said it was an ex Alfa car. I specifically questioned about whether it was ex demo or one of their managers but he admitted he did not know.

Got the V5 through in the post today and to my ashtonishment it turns out it was a ex Herts car. To be honest I would never have bought an ex hire car and I'm gob smacked that an official dealer would make such a mistake or indeed lie or mis sell.

So what should I do now. I am worried that this will effect the resale value and I don't like the idea that it may have been shagged by any number of users.

Advise / opinions saught. My gut feels is that I want my money back, so whats the best way to go about it.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Ouch!

Naughty dealer!
 
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

just go back and say what you just said.

That with prior knowledge you wouldn't have have to car.

It's miss selling.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Maybe Alfa lease them from Hertz and leave Hertz to do the management? 13k is no miles for a general public type hire car if thats what it was, they wouldn't be selling it off so early would they?.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I thought mileage was low for a hire car
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockhopper View Post
Maybe Alfa lease them from Hertz and leave Hertz to do the management?
No, I believe that Alfa/Fiat management cars are registered to Fiat Auto Uk

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Originally Posted by nigelread View Post
I thought mileage was low for a hire car
I would've said it was a little high. Most go back at circa 10k
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Yea I agree, most hire cars usually go back arround 10k. But the point is I was mis sold this car, as I said before I would never have bought an ex hire car. Hell i've driven a few myself and never taken any care with the engine. Thats half the fun of driving a hire car !
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I'd say its mis-representation of goods
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I can imagine it must be irritating. But if you're otherwise happy with the car - condition, mechanics etc. it needn't be a problem. It will still have full warranty etc. You could easily get a privately owned car that was total rubbish.

Had an ex-Hertz XR3i years ago and that was flawless.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

If you are happy to keep the car, i would take it back to them and say, you sold me this car under the impression it was an ex demo as it is an ex hire car, tell them to do all of the usual engine checks and change any parts that tend to wear out quickly along with throwing in a full warranty if not already done so.

Also, tell them that if they are not willing to do this then they can have the car back for a full refund.

If they say no, go straight to Alfa uk and deal with them.

If this deosn't work then, i'm out of ideas.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Errm, mis-selling pure an simple, in the line of work i do if i did that i'd be sacked..........

Grounds for complaint for sure, if you say you'd never of purchased if ex rental and they tell you its ex Alfa car........ go get money back IMHO.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I had exactly the same thing done to me. I bought a nearly new 2.5 156 from Fish Brothers in Swindon. I was told it was owned by Alfa when it was owned by Hertz. I also found out after that the car had had a complete respray, even though it had covered "Only" 17,000 miles.

This was in January 2000 and as far as I am aware the salesman still works there.

I really wished that I had taken matter further and knowing what I do now I would have done.

Have you any proof that he said what he did, I mean do you have witnesses or anything in writing specifically saying it was owned by Alfa? Maybe Hertz contract hire them from Alfa, and then give them back after a set mileage. Which technically means that it is still owned by Alfa.

I would ask for a refund. If you part exchanged a car in against I would want cash for the value of that as well, otherwise say you are off to trading standards.

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Last edited by BigFoot; 13-05-08 at 08:00. Reason: offensive language removed
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Buying an ex-hire car is not necessarily as bad as it may first seem.

People generally hire cars to do motorway or high mileage travelling, so the engine spends more time at proper working temp. than say a demo model would, and probably gets less stressed.

They also tend to get pressures and fluid levels etc. checked more frequently than a demo would.

I wouldn't have a problem buying one so long as it was OK cosmetically and I was made aware of the fact that it was ex-hire first.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The South Moroccan View Post
Yea I agree, most hire cars usually go back arround 10k. But the point is I was mis sold this car, as I said before I would never have bought an ex hire car. Hell i've driven a few myself and never taken any care with the engine. Thats half the fun of driving a hire car !
To be fair to the dealer (cue the flaming), he might not have known. When I was selling cars years ago (Rovers ), we bought cars from Rover directly; or the closed auctions (Rover dealers only) and you never knew what was a 'management' car, an employee car, or dare I say it. An ex rental car until the logbook came through...

I'd suggest before everyone suggests driving the car through the showroom window, that you have a chat with them. Tell them that you're not happy with the situation, and give them a chance to put that right. Be it with another vehicle of the same value, or maybe some sort of compensation. I would also put this in writing, and send it recorded delivery, just to be sure that the dealer gets it, and you have proof of delivery.

The dealer may well suprise you. Not all are bad
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Its possibly an Alfa approved car, the dealer may not have known the history. Most manufacturers sell blocks of cars to contract and hire companies, and often have them back after a year.
If you like the car try to get a substantial refund, like £2000, or suggest they have it back. They will only offer to swop it, may not be possible to undo the deal now. Go for some cash.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

The milage is high for a hire car they the majority go back at 10K.

It is certainly misrepresentation and you could take the car back, however keith is right try to get some cashback.

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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I wouldn't worry about it unless the car looks and sounds like a bag of nails
 
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by symonh2000 View Post
I would ask for a refund. If you part exchanged a car in against I would want cash for the value of that as well, otherwise say you are off to trading standards.
Spot on except don't just say it (you are off to trading standards), do it FIRST and tell the dealer so!

P
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I would definitely go ask them questions, but as others have said, it can't be an ex-hire car with that low a mileage.

Incidentally, what do we call mileage in metric?! Kilometrage?!
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

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I would definitely go ask them questions, but as others have said, it can't be an ex-hire car with that low a mileage.
Big Hire companies only run cars to about 10k miles, they get them so cheap they can sell them on second hand for almost what they paid in the first place.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

I think that you are right to be concerned. I bought a 146 a few years back and was not particularly pleased to discover in the paperwork that the first owner had been Avis..... It explained a lot, like why it was on gearbox number two at 33 000 miles and why that gearbox went pop only 7000 miles into my ownership! The boxer engined models didn't have particularly rugged boxes and that made sourcing another one quite difficult. Needless to say, it was fixed and moved on - didn't trust it anymore.
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

It's karma for all those hire-cars you've beaten up...

But I think the beast will be able to take it. It's the diesel after all.. they don't get booted so much.


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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

... a diesel in an Alfa doesn't get booted? C'mooooon!
 
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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

On the one hand you are/were happy with the car.

However, "ex-Alfa management" and "ex-rental" will have an impact on its perceived value and as such it has been misrepresented to you. Probably accidentally and you should allow them this "escape" when you discuss it with them.

13k is indeed at least 3k over the maximum that hire cars stay out and it is equally fair to assume that the potentially dozens of different drivers will not have driven it with much sympathy. Not that it will necessarily break down.

I'd suggest you go back and calmly state your concerns and dissatisfaction. Decide if you are actually happy with the car. If so, propose they agree that the two sources affect its perceived resale value and compensate you accordingly. Think of a realistic sum (don't be silly, or you undermine your negotiating position), offer to accept a cash repayment or perhaps a credit note to the value of the next full service, or some other trade which gives you more value but costs them little.

Alternatively, if you are completely put off by the car ask for a similar/lower mileage replacement non-hire car to be provided in the next (say) 4 weeks on a straight swap basis. Be reasonable but clear and you'll get further than losing it in the showroom and calling them shysters.


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Re: Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

Jim that was a well constructed post and pretty good advice all round

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