JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k! - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 25 Old 06-12-07 Thread Starter
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JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

hi folks, the dreaded timing belt has snapped at 63k on my 53 plate 147 jtd m-jet car has a full alfa dealer service history and was last in at the dealers 3 weeks ago for a blown turbo hose. When i bought the car in august I called my local alfa dealer to ask about the timing belt, they assured me that it didnt need doing until 72k! So i didnt have it done despite my gut instinct bothering me greatly.

has this happened to anyone else? did alfa cough up some cash for the repairs? cars been in at western alfa in edinburgh since tuesday, to date all theyve done is check the belt has snapped and refuse to do anything til alfa uk gives them some sort or go ahead. they havent even given me a courtesy car. having to make 2 hour bus journeys to work...

I think because I asked about the belt before and the service manager remembers advising me not to get it done that I shouldnt have to foot the bill for the repairs and any damage done to my beloved engine. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Im seriously considering writing to the local papers and watchdog over this but am hoping it doesnt come to that
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Sorry to hear about this, some people with more experience than me will be along shortly to advise (ie TwinSpark owners ) but the belt has broken before its 72K / 5 years and you have full dealer history - I'd be optimistic
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

verbally given advice doesnt make the dealer liable, but the fact that you have full dealer service history and it happened before the 5year 72k period usually means they will offer to pay for all or most of the cost, its up to ARUK to decide if they will pay for it not the dealer. if they dont offer to pay then get on the phone to ARUK and complain/negotiate/threaten/beg.
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

I contact ARUK direct and tell them exactly what you've posted here !!
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

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Originally Posted by PMjet16v View Post
I think because I asked about the belt before and the service manager remembers advising me not to get it done that I shouldnt have to foot the bill for the repairs and any damage done to my beloved engine. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
To be fair the service manager has just told you the official line for JTDms and replacement belts, so I wouldn't blame him - he was probably just trying to save you spending more than you did on the turbo hose.

However, since the belt snapped well before the 72k replacement mileage I would contact ARUK and ask what's holding things up at Western. I'd like to think they'll come some way to reimbursing you.

Good luck.
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

THis is really bad news PMjet16V. If it's any consolation, the cambelt on my wife's Alfa 147 Multijet 1.9 diesel JTD snapped about four weeks ago and, contrary to reports I had heard that the rockers/lifters etc would protect the valves etc on this particular diesel engine, caused about £1,800 worth of damage.

As the car has only done 38,000 miles (a March 2004 Lusso), was bought from a franchised AR dealer (in January) and has a FSH, I took the matter up with Alfa, via the dealer, who were, and continue to be, very helfpul, and Alfa has agreed to pay the full cost of the repairs etc as a goodwill gesture.

The next problem, however, was that it took Alfa nearly 4 weeks to source a replacement cylinder head for the car, but this has, at long last, now finally arrived at the dealer in Kent, who today (Friday 7/12) began the 2.5 days' worth of work needed to put the whole engine back together again.

While I have strongly criticised the Alfa supply chain to AR on several occasions over the past fortnight, for taking so long to find what you would think would be a readily available engine component, their Italy-based Customer Services Department, and a South African-sounding lady called Dawn in particular, have been very helpful throughout (as has Thames Fiat/Group in Tun Wells, the dealer). I think Dawn and her colleagues at AR have been really embarrassed about the difficulty in obtaining the "head". I have found them polite and helpful throughout; the issue seems to be that, with today's "just-in-time" stock ordering/holding systems, they have great difficulty getting hold of parts sufficiently quickly.

Hope you get your problems resolved anyway; your experience is really bad luck but seeminlgly, unfortunately, not that rare, on this engine! Jonathan
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(Post Link) post #7 of 25 Old 07-12-07 Thread Starter
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

hi again folks and thanks for your support/advice on this! ok heres the story now, i need the following replaced, 16 x tappets 16 x rockers, water pump, full cambelt kit, alternator belt and 7 hours labour coming to a grand total of £1049 of which alfa have agreed to pay half, which is good of them but im really still not very pleased, tried diggin my heels in and being a pain but western wont budge on the final figure hey ho the joys of motoring strike once more. not quite as good a pay off from alfa as i'd hoped but better than nothing i suppose. could have been much worse but ive only had it since the end of august and have run around in bangers for the past 15 yrs none of which cost me £500 pretty cheesed off with this modern car thing
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

You can't blame the dealer, but several reports here have found that the water pump has seized, and being driven by the cam belt.....
ARUK have contributed to repairs. The JTD is designed to minimise the effect, and commomly the rockers/cam followers break before anything else. You will have to get your dealer to negotiate firmly with ARUK. Do you have any sort of warranty with the car?
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Really bad news it is. Yes it would seem (even though I don't know whether it was the case here) that all the cambelt "breakdowns" on the MJET JTDs have been caused by a seized water pump. In my view the annoying thing here is that the owner can't know what to do until AR would frankly admit yes there has been a problem wrt water pump but it has been fixed in later models or something. However until they provide any clarification a JTD (MJET) owner will be really on thin ice as one doesn't know whether to have the water pump replaced during cambelt change or even in an earlier service to avoid the issue as I guess the seizure could still occur with currently sold water pumps unless someone can confirm it's been modified. So it's a tricky one.

Good luck though PMjet16v with getting AR paying the damage if you still give it a try...
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Keitgglos/pmjet

Interesting posts; all I would say,m though, is that if there really is a problem with the water pump (same "seizing" of the pump caused my camblet damage, seemingly on 1.9 JTD engines of 3-5 yeras ago, then AR should be admitting it and doing something significant about it.

I have had a loan car for the past four weeks from the dealer while my other half's 1.9 JTD 147 Lusso has been awaiting the relevant cylinder head, but surely a company with the resources of AR should have addressed this water pump/cambelt problem by now? What do others think? I am only lucky that AR has agreed to pay the full costs but that does not excuse, in my view, having to wait over four weeks for a cylunder head to be located, and the fact that this happened on a car with just 38,000 miles on the clock.

Jonathan
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Sounds like the waterpump has siezed.

The contribution is fair enough in my opinion, the car is 4 years old and is nearing the belt interval anyway.

If you had swapped out the belt and the water pump prior to this you would have been a few hundred quid lighter anyway.
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Hi All
If you search for my previous post on this subject you'll see the same thing happened to me with my 156 jtd.I also bought my car in august and got in contact with consumer direct on 08454040506 for advice,they told me how to go about claiming against alfa and the dealer i bought it from,the outcome was the dealer paid half(they were going to pay it all) and alfa paid the other half.My bill was £780.Where did you buy the car from was it a franchise.
Give this consumer direct a call they were great with me and saved me a fortune.
If you want to talk pm me your phone no. and i'll give you more on what i was told to say.
Regards
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Forgot to say my car was in western alfa in perth
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

thanks i'll give them a call .

i didnt buy it from a franchise dealer , the warranty from the dealer i bought it from ran out a week before the little escapade. i think ive got all im getting out of alfa and probably have done ok but ill check with the people suggested. probably I'll just have to take this one on the chin, and look forward to getting my car back next week!
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

You are being asked to pay a figure that is close to what you would have had to pay for a cam belt (and water pump?) change anyway in the very near future, so you are not doing too badly in having AR pick up half. Its not a good scenario overall though is it. I have a feeling the dealer should stump up a bit..warranty or none, even if its a goodwill gesture amount.

I think we are looking at belt/pump changes at around the 50k Miles mark on the 1.9 JTDs judging from what people are experiencing. Alfa will get round to this in ten years time of course. They are unlikely to modify the pump

I wonder what is happening to the Vauxhalls/Opels that are using this motor. I hear they are getting problems with blocked particulate filters on cars that are driven gently..its brings on a warning light, and the filter needs cleaning regularly apparently.

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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

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Originally Posted by AlfaLincs View Post
I think we are looking at belt/pump changes at around the 50k Miles mark on the 1.9 JTDs judging from what people are experiencing.
The 2.4JTD uses the same pump, so will probably have the same issue too.
However there are probably far more 1.9JTDs around given that it is used in 147/156/GT, but the 2.4 only in 156 (& 166 in LHD form).
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Most of the 1.9 Fiat diesels have a pump driven by the auxiliary belt.
Have GM (SAAB and Vauxhall) had this problem with the twin cam?
Also the 159 uses it. Seems a strange engineering decision to drive the pump from the cam belt.
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

David C says "The 2.4JTD uses the same pump, so will probably have the same issue too."

Now you've got me worried as we didn't have the pump changed on the 2.4 when we had the belt/tensioner done. All the same (he says hopefully) you don't hear of too many 2.4s doing this, it seems otbe the 1.9s, though I hear what you are saying about relative numbers of these engines.

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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

so are we thinking that the water pump should be done at the same time on the jtdm? my little 147's up to 53k so about due a belt / tensioners - how much is a pump?
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

The pumps are about £50.

The 1.9 8v & 2.4 10v share the same pump

The 1.9 16v & 2.4 20v share the same pump
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

I've never heard of a pump going on a 8v JTD, only 16v mJet units.. Maybe its a fault with the pumps?
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

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Originally Posted by AlfaLincs View Post
I wonder what is happening to the Vauxhalls/Opels that are using this motor. I hear they are getting problems with blocked particulate filters on cars that are driven gently..its brings on a warning light, and the filter needs cleaning regularly apparently.
Cannavar here has had this problem... Linky
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Hmmm Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

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I've never heard of a pump going on a 8v JTD, only 16v mJet units.. Maybe its a fault with the pumps?
Evening, well I hope that is the case, because I got my cambelt changed on my 1.9JTD in October 2006 with 54000 miles on the clock, and the car has now done 70000 miles, the Alfa Dealer also changed the tensioner and did check the waterpump, at that time there was no problems with it. My car is booked in at the Alfa garage in Chesterfield (Autoworld) for it's 72000 mile service at the end of next month, and I'm in a real puzzle and quite stressed about the issue to get the waterpump and cambelt changed at this service! I'd really appreciate it and so would other 1.9 JTD 8 valve and 2.4 JTD 10 valve owners would share their experiences.

Cheers,

Kenny
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

JTD 10v, 122k miles, AFAIK original waterpump, if anything its working overtime as it runs just a touch cooler than I'd like, with new radiator thermostat and temp sender.. The mind boggles
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Re: JTD M-Jet timing belt broken at 63k!

Well that does make me feel better, as I have been worrying about this for a few weeks after reading this. Cheers PUD237.
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