New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 39 Old 28-09-07 Thread Starter
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New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

For those of you have read my previous thread on this you'll know the story, but read on cos it's ust got a whole lot worse.

I took my new (to me) 147 GTA into my local garage for a new cambelt as it was on 60K. After I got the car back I noticed it was very juddery and uneven when sat idling. Straight back to the garage the next morning, plugged it in to the dianostics which reported intermittent missfire on cyclinders 1,2 and 3. I was sure it was the timing as I wasn't convinced he'd used the right 3.2 cam lock tool. he insisted he had and that it was the spark plugs, so they got changed. No different though, still idling strange, he tells me to run it over the weekend and he'd plug it back in on monday to see what it says.

Goes back in on monday, and he then started talking about it must the coil packs. I say it's gotta be timing cos it was running as sweet as a nut before the cambelt was changed. He again tells me it can't be at that point I lost it, I took the car away and called an alfa specialit I'd been speaking to and getting advice from (Alfa Tecnico, Sutton in Ashfield) and got it in their this morning. He had a listen to the engine and exhaust note and immediatly diagnosed a misfire probably due to poor timing on the back cam (notorisly difficult one to do).

He calls me later in the morning to advise that under a compression test, all cyclinders apart from 2 and 5 are running at about 220PSI. pot 2 is at 80psi and 5 is at 170psi. the reason being (he strongly suspects) that the valves have been bent. F**king brilliant!! So what's the cost?........£2000. The whole engine has to come out, then replace the valves etc, then shoehorn the lump back in! I nearly feinted, then I nearly cried, then I was just plain angry.

Straight away I know it's gonna be a call to the first garage to get him to stump up the money. But after a word with a collegue I realise that we insure the garage on it's Motor Trade policy. So I'm now going through the motions of getting a "faulty workmanship" claim underway.

At the end of the day I'm looking at being £2K out of pocket for a while and without my car for the foreseable cos the insurers assesor are bound to want to see it.

Sorry for the long story but it feels sooooo much better to get that off my chest. I would apreicatte messages of support or advice!!

P.S I think my wifes gonna kill me when I tell her!!!!

Why do people drive anything else?

If you cut me in half an Alfa would roar out and run you over! You've been warned
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Wow.....really feel for you mate. Why is it that so many garages seem totally useless these days - no ability and no pride in their workmanship.

Hope you get it sorted without too much loss to your pocket.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

That’s terrible luck I hope it all gets sorted soon and you get the money back. A friend of mine a few years back had a similar problem with his 3.0 GTV and it cost him about the same. But on the bright side when its all done you will have a stonking car to thrash about in for another 60k before you will have to think about cambelts again!
 
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Probably not what you want to hear Dickyboy, but be prepared for a long wait....parts for the V6 are very hard to get hold of at the moment, having similar troubles myself.

Just hope you don't have to wait as long as I have been...
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Well did they sort the timing first? because if the timing was not sorted first your compression would be low due to incorrect valve timing. If the valves are opening at the wrong time you can't compress air when valves are open. Personally don't think the valves will be bent the timing would need to be a mile out which would make the car a non start. Unless the garage know they done this damage trying to fit the belt.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

take the report back to the original garage tell them they have seven days to remedy the problem they caused, put it in writing tell trading standards and any proffessional body who the garage is a member of, and make it clear you will sue them and go to your local press.
 
(Post Link) post #7 of 39 Old 28-09-07 Thread Starter
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Well did they sort the timing first? because if the timing was not sorted first your compression would be low due to incorrect valve timing. If the valves are opening at the wrong time you can't compress air when valves are open. Personally don't think the valves will be bent the timing would need to be a mile out which would make the car a non start. Unless the garage know they done this damage trying to fit the belt.
It's defo because of what that first garage did as it was running abosolutley fine before hand, they must have done some damage while the cam belt was being done. The valve timing was fine when i bought it and not after the cam belt had been screwed up.

now i'm getting worried again that the specialist has mis diagnosed the problem!! God i hope not!!
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Mate I'm so sorry to hear about this. I thought that incorrect timing might have been the problem, but I didn't realise they'd got the timing that wrong.

I've been lucky in terms of actual damage, but after having used a talented mechanic (who got it well wrong) and an alfa specialist (who got it absolutely spot on first time) for timing belts on the V6, I know it's something I will never let anyone who isn't an Alfa specialist anywhere near, no matter how much of a talented mechanic they are in other areas.

Look on the small brightside, if all that damage has really been done, the original garage that replaced the cambelt are liable.

1.21 GIGAWATTS?!

Ex 95 164 TS Super, 95 164 QV, 97 164 V6 Super – all very much missed.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

This is really sad, hope you get it sorted out
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Sorry to hear about your bella mate....but you have a GTA!!... you really should have taken it to a main dealer IMO I would`t even think about taking any of my bella`s to the "LOCAL GARAGE" no matter how good their ment to be.Alfas are specialist cars, hope you get it sortted....OUCH....Bodgit.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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you really should have taken it to a main dealer
Hate to disagree with you, but I'd never take an alfa to a main dealer. Find a good specialist and use them. They'll charge you less and won't leave a monkey in charge of your bella. (Plus they're cheaper!)
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Hate to disagree with you, but I'd never take an alfa to a main dealer. Find a good specialist and use them. They'll charge you less and won't leave a monkey in charge of your bella. (Plus they're cheaper!)
I'll second that. Bluebell Motor Company do all the work on my Alfa for me, while they aren't loads cheaper than the main dealer they do undercut their prices by a good amount, but the thing that will make me always want to go back is that they so honest, they won't rip you off or do a crap job, or tell you something needs fixing if it doesn't. Also, they don't ask for cash before they take a look, which is the thing I probably hate most about main dealers
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(Post Link) post #13 of 39 Old 29-09-07 Thread Starter
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

I have had good expeirences of my main dealer, my first alfa had to have a new gearbox (under warranty) and they were great about it.

However when the franchise changed hands a year or so ago, they were shocking! i don't reckon they had any alfa trained guys there at all, and never got the job right first time.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers View Post
Hate to disagree with you, but I'd never take an alfa to a main dealer. Find a good specialist and use them. They'll charge you less and won't leave a monkey in charge of your bella. (Plus they're cheaper!)
. . . also you don't have to pay them as much money either.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

GUYS...........were talking GTA here.. very specialist, if you have one of these and dont want to spend money on it then good luck. Even if the MD do **** it up you`ve got the backing of AR to sort it out. I have learnt in life and in business "you get what you pay for" and most of the time its true.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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GUYS...........were talking GTA here.. very specialist, if you have one of these and dont want to spend money on it then good luck. Even if the MD do **** it up you`ve got the backing of AR to sort it out. I have learnt in life and in business "you get what you pay for" and most of the time its true.
Not always so though! It can be the case that you pay the money and get an argument. I have seen a few Main Dealers "BLASTED" in these waters!

I worked at AR London Sales some years back and amongst all the good guys there was a couple of right monkeys! If I had a GTA ( ) I would not want people like those touching it!

And also bear in mind that Dicky says he took it to his "local garage" with no mention of an Alfa Specialist.

I would have no qualms about using my particular "Alfa Specialist" (Alfarama) on a GTA, if I had one, as I once briefly worked for the guy and know the kind of standards he insists on. He is still my first choice for any work.

Just a thought!

Paulus

THE ROXAS THAT I KNEW IS LONG GONE
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Your going about it the wrong way m8, just call tradin standards, take the car back to the garage and demand it is put right, explaining that it has been diagnosed by an alfa specialist. They are compelled to correct there poor work.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Your going about it the wrong way m8, just call tradin standards, take the car back to the garage and demand it is put right, explaining that it has been diagnosed by an alfa specialist. They are compelled to correct there poor work.
How happy would YOU be letting them loose on your bella for another bash?
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Agreed....Paulus...local garage a big no..no.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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How happy would YOU be letting them loose on your bella for another bash?
Take it to an Alfa specialist, and send the original garage the bill.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

Sorry to hear this mate, hope it all gets sorted fairly sharpish.
 
(Post Link) post #22 of 39 Old 01-10-07 Thread Starter
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Your going about it the wrong way m8, just call tradin standards, take the car back to the garage and demand it is put right, explaining that it has been diagnosed by an alfa specialist. They are compelled to correct there poor work.
Take it back to a garage that have managed to do £2000 worth of damage already, and let them have another pop at it????!!!!!! I think not Phil........i'll get a specialist to sort it (like i should of in the first place) and send him the flaming bill.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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Take it back to a garage that have managed to do £2000 worth of damage already, and let them have another pop at it????!!!!!! I think not Phil........i'll get a specialist to sort it (like i should of in the first place) and send him the flaming bill.
i think legally you have to offer them the opportunity to resolve the matter themsleves as you may not be entitled to full reimbursment of your costs from another dealer. obviously if he does it himself it will be done to fit in around other work and he won't have a fat margin on it and it will be at cost with no VAT on the labour etc. however if he refuses to sort it out or confirms he is happy to cover the costs elsewhere then get the specialist involved.

however there is no harm in pointing out to him that you will be getting the work idependantly checked and any additional 'issues' picked up will be sorted by the specalist and charged back to him. as a thought how did you pay for the work to be done if it was on a card you could speak to them as the service was not as described etc they may be able to intervene on your behalf.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

I think GTV is right, and although you don't want to take it back to the garage who did the damage, what more damage can they do? Let them know you'll be taking to an indie to ensure all is well once the work is done, at least you're being honest and open with them.
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Re: New cambelt = bent valves!! GRRRRRRR

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i think legally you have to offer them the opportunity to resolve the matter themsleves as you may not be entitled to full reimbursment of your costs from another dealer. obviously if he does it himself it will be done to fit in around other work and he won't have a fat margin on it and it will be at cost with no VAT on the labour etc. however if he refuses to sort it out or confirms he is happy to cover the costs elsewhere then get the specialist involved.

however there is no harm in pointing out to him that you will be getting the work idependantly checked and any additional 'issues' picked up will be sorted by the specalist and charged back to him. as a thought how did you pay for the work to be done if it was on a card you could speak to them as the service was not as described etc they may be able to intervene on your behalf.
I paid him by credit card but only half the bill (on arrangement with him) so i'm not too fussed about that as the card company won't be able to make him pick up the £2K tab, which is what i need.

As for getting them to do the work, they never listened when i told them it was timing, so i've had to pay the specialist to take it apart to prove it is, so there is now no point it getting the original garage to repair their mistake! unless they will pay the specialist too. which is bloody unlikly. Plus, i want the job done sharpish and if i let the original monkeys do it it'll take forever as like you say it won't be a priority job will it?

I just know this is all gonna go even more **** up, it's just my luck!!
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