LPG'ing a Busso V6 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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LPG'ing a Busso V6

Hi guys, last LPG related post was 3 years ago. Very pleased with my 3.2 GT...except fuelling it.

Have had mixed results with LPG in the past- some cowboy fleeced me out of over £2.5k on a Jaguar XJR LPG conversion on Romano HD. Fine for 6k miles and then all the coil packs, injectors and various other engine parts needed replacing, not to mention 3 lots of spark plugs, because the rear cylinders were getting way too hot as a result of the higher burn rate of LPG

However, a MG 2.5 V6 on a BRC conversion has been impeccable, as has a Zavoli 2.0 Duratec mk3 Mondeo. Bearing in mind most conversion companies tend to be Italian, is it a fairly good conclusion that Alfas should be OK on LPG? Anyone know if they are soft or hard valve seats- therefore needing valve lubricant? I would only go for a BRC conversion- I know it'll be £1800 or so, but it would pay for itself in 18k miles and after that, would still add value to the car.

Thoughts?

Thank you
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Did a DIY mixer type a few years ago on a 2.0TS - 100k miles with no LPG issues (and only minor other issues). I've done a Jag X-Type 2.5 V6 with a Marelli system and a 1.8 Freelander with Lovato system - never had any real issues with those either. If I still did the 150 mile/day commute I'd get it on the 3.2 159 but it's not worth bothering with the measly miles I do nowadays.
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Thank you. Interesting you mention no issues on the Jag as heard the valve seats on those V6s were very prone to wear, even with Flashlube so hope it's still working OK
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Quote:
heard the valve seats on those V6s were very prone to wear
I did around 70k on the LPG with no Flaslube or any other valve seat treatment and no issues. Sold the car a while ago so not sure if it was eventaully affected
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Couple of guys over in the 166 section have gone LPG on their Busso engined cars - no issues, big miles. Did consider doing mine at one point but decided it wasn't worth the expense given how few miles we do. I did get my Jeep done and even though it improves the effective commuting mpg (comparitive cost, not actual mpg improvement) from about 13 to 23, I am still waiting to break even - again, very low miles.
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I've recently done a Twinspark and fitted it myself. Pretty straight forward as long as you are handy with a spanner.

Can't see the Busso being any more difficult that any other car. Just the pipe work might be a bit tricky as there is less room in the engine bay.

Alfa's engines and fiats all seem to take to LPG pretty well.
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I had a 2.0 ts gtv on LPG for +/- 100000 km, first there was a Zavoli in it, had a back fire an 2 computer failure, after this the gasman put a Lovato computer in it and everything went fine.
Now i have a Mercedes slk running on LPG with a Lovato instalation and after 25000 km no problems at all.
The spider JTS and TS are just burning 95 oct :-)
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they are not Busso's, but I had LPGs on several of my Alfas:
  • first with 1.3 boxer on 146
  • second on 1.6TS 156
  • third on 2.2JTS 159
  • fourth on 1.6 boxer 146

The only one which had few issues was 2.2JTS on 159, for a few reasons:
  • installation done by this Muppets in that services where I went was so technically poor that I had leaking cooling fluid and ruptured pipes just as result of poor technical installation
  • believe it or not, even when I was picking car after the new installation, returned it immediately, since was able to sense the presence of the gas in cabin
  • am not any more sure what was more problem, but had few times engine overheating during city ride (AR found that few pipes were ruptures and I was leaking cooling fluid)
  • service needed several times setting up the ECU parameters in order to tune this properly
I would not blame AR for that, just those Muppets (never brought any car to that LPG service again; last time when I was there with the complaint, they told me that they let of last Meister, while he made so much doo-doo that they were for a months just correcting what he has done wrong).

  • 146s 1.3 & 1.6 boxer (man I loved those cars!)
  • 156 1.6TS (sold it only since I wanted more power)
  • 159 2.2JTS SW (sold it only since I wanted more power)
  • now driving 159 3.2JTS Q4 SW Ti
  • now driving also Honda CRF1000 Africa Twin
  • now driving also Aprilia Moto 6.5
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Id be interested to know why mpg drop you get on the various engines you have done. Mines working out to 17% mpg drop with a sequential multi point system.

I tend to drive it a lot harder now given it costs me 8p a mile rather than 14.
Im still learning hiw to tune it correctly and if I did it again I think I'd opt for a larger tank or cylinder. Id also place the injectors far closer to the originals. The point of entry is right next to the original injectors. But the actual injectors are plave 15cm away to allow room on a rail. Next time id do them all separate.

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Update on mine- got it all fitted. 4000 miles further on and all is well. Got a top line BRC conversion installed with flashlube, just to be on the safe side. For 52 litres of 55-60p/litre LPG, I get 230 or so miles. No error messages etc to speak of and car seems to be running fine! Would happily recommend it.
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Good install that works out to 20 mpg give or take.
Don't need flash tube though. But if installed won't harm it at all.

Not sure what the Busso does in 3.2 form in mpg I'd imagine 23-25mpg

Can you take a photo of the install at all?
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Looking into LPG JTS 2.0

Been reserching this as the JTS is a VERY early Direct Injection engine. Shocked some so called experts at PRINS!! LPGWALES have done a few installs using AC Stag, and Romano systems.
ok this is what i have learnt:
AEB make the ECU for: OMVL/Emer, Zavoli, Romano and Pride. It is actually the same unit (AEB3000) just rebranded. Tried the Tinley Tech website as they are OMVL/Emer UK suppliers, and their website is not helpful with Direct Injection engines; so much so they started verbally abusing me and now no longer want anything to do with me!!
Other companies are Ac Stag's 400 DPI system and Gas Italy's F5 GDI.

As all AEB ECU's come with 3 year guarantee, i have been researching prices too:
gplmarket.com do an AEB300EME ECU kit (EMER Varient including loom and switches) for 287.40 euro including postage or 218.53GBP
agsiedlik.pl do Stag 400 DPI for 1547 Polish Zloty (263 GBP + postage)
gaz.kharkiv.ua do an AEB varient for 5246.94 Ukranian ? or 149.87GBP + postage. Still waiting to see if includes loom, etc.

The polish website does best deal on 100l cylindrical tanks 320PLZ or 54.40GBP+ postage.

GAS injectors and vaporisers can be as cheap or expensive as you want, but i was thinking of IT01 Tomasetto Injectors and Tomasetto AT07 Super for the vaporiser. That way the vaporiser has integraled cut-off solenoid (tidy) and injectors can almost be disposable at every other service.

Still looking into this so any more info i shall update.
Oh by the way LPGWales said they ran a 5% petrol mix to cool petrol injectors and they found that worked fine.

Also AEB have a new ECU for DI's called DI60, but haven't looked into that .....yet!!
Added screen grab from polish site, have order stuff from them before so know that their postage was only £7.54 via UPS!, but tank postage willbe more i imagine.
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That's correct with DI you need to run a little petrol to keep the combustion charge cool.
To be honest any direct injection isn't gonig to work perfectly just yet. I'd try to avoid DI if LPGing. It's in its infancy at best.
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Have also looked into Liquid LPG injection. Ideal for high performance applications. As for DI LPG being in infancy; well yes and no. Spoke to BRC and they had launched the system for 156 JTS, but only on their final endurance test (100,000 miles!!), they found some 'metal particulates in combustion camber', probably valve seat recession. So they had to retract the system. However they had already installed it onto a few and they didn't have any problems. He went onto say it is about if the engine is either 'lean-burn' or Stoichiometric.
My feeling is that i shall install a DI system, and always use additive in petrol side to aid lube, and clean system.
But that is for the future not the present.
Any ideas and comment welcome.
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As i understand it the 2.0 JTS without modification allways pollut at the valve chambers and that only because it is a direct injection so there is no fuel mixture passing via the valves. The pollution comes by the Possitive cranccase ventilation so certenly no exra lube system as for the rest totaly agree with Scottyf.
PS My gas specialist who is doing instalation on +/ 10 of my cars whont even consider on doing it on my JTS
On the moment i have also a Mercedes SLK R 171 compressor year 2007 who also runs on a little petrol to keep the combustion charge cool. To be honnest i dont know if the Merc is a direct injection ( dont think so ) and i dont know why the petrol in this case is needed. I will ask the specialist the next time i see him

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Last edited by Afco; 01-02-16 at 12:00.
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