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Old 20-03-06 Thread Starter
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max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

anyone any idea how far the 2.0ts engine can be taken whilst staying N/A? im closing in on my primary target of 200bhp but i was just wondering, how far will it go before there really is nothing more that can be done?

also, what sort of hp figures have you lot got from your 2.0TS blocks? im not interested in turbo figures (yet).

thanks.

marko
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
anyone any idea how far the 2.0ts engine can be taken whilst staying N/A? im closing in on my primary target of 200bhp but i was just wondering, how far will it go before there really is nothing more that can be done?

also, what sort of hp figures have you lot got from your 2.0TS blocks? im not interested in turbo figures (yet).

thanks.

marko
what bhp have you got to at the moment
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

stats are in the sig... 191bhp, 220Nm torque :>
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

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Originally Posted by marko
stats are in the sig... 191bhp, 220Nm torque :>

i didnt read your signature.....
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

The top peak of 156 Supertouring output was 330bhp from a NA 2.0, so you won't get near that.
The Superproduction engines were about 250bhp max. But as soon as you get into full race cams with lots of overlap & lift @ TDC you will not stand a chance of passing an MOT emissions test.
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

so my 'ultra road' cams will be ok? there not really something i want to take out for an MOT! hm, 250bhp is the target then!
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Old 20-03-06
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

191 bhp is really impressive for a 2.0 TS, well done!. How did you get there? , any dyno charts you want to share?
 
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Hey Marko..how you doing? So whats all the mods you've carried out then? Really interested for my 145 QV!!
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

To be honest, if you're planning to use the car for the road, you shouldn't really be that worried about the max bhp you can obtain, as its likely that the engine will lose flexibility and your in-gear acceleration will suffer.
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
anyone any idea how far the 2.0ts engine can be taken whilst staying N/A? im closing in on my primary target of 200bhp but i was just wondering, how far will it go before there really is nothing more that can be done?

also, what sort of hp figures have you lot got from your 2.0TS blocks? im not interested in turbo figures (yet).

thanks.

marko
Hi Marko, how did you get to the 191hp, can u tell us what mods have you done? I'm really interested on how to get that amount of hp from the 2.0TS engine. Anyway i am sure your 0-62 would be better with a manual gear shifter.
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheidgen
Anyway i am sure your 0-62 would be better with a manual gear shifter.
Don't even go there...!


You are wrong by the way...
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

mods to date are as follows (in no paticular order)

Custom CAI based on novitec induiction kit
bored out and polished TB
matched ports on intake/exhaust manifold
polished intake manifold
piper ultimate road cams (290deg i believe)
ECU remap

in the pipeline there is a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, custom stainless exhaust system to GTA style exit. also looking into a lightened flywheel to give her that little extra freedom in the revs. after that im not certain as to where i will go, i think as soon as i get it to 200bhp i will be changing the brakes tho! handles the power ok at the moment but i think there getting towards their limit!

as for being better in a manual? pah, then i dont have paddles to play with, double clutch and a very fast gear change! i lurve the selespeed system to be honest! so much fun!

ill try and get the dyno charts printed out tomorrow or wednesday, im in hospital tomorrow so might not have time. (done at my mates RR)
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Talking to a chap the other night who has a 155 2.0T/S making 217bhp (dyno'd) Apparently he's done away with the balance shafts along with everything you've done. Its supposed to be smooth and driveable. I'd like to go there myself this year with one of mine
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Jim, that may be Sub555 (not on here much if at all - champagne colour 155?) his 2.0 TS 155 runs at about 215bhp and revs happily to 8K RPM - lots of crank/flywheel/head/fuelling work and well as remapping etc
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Thats the chap
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

i will be happy with 200bhp... but then i might decide 200whp would be better... ah where do i draw the line?

in the future would all the work im doing now be a good underpinning for a turbo/supercharger conversion?
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

A friend of mine has been able to get 240HP from an 1.8TS engine.

But there's nothing "stock" with this engine, it has four throttle bodies, custom ECU, custom cams, lightened crankshaft/con-rods/flywheel, forged pistons, custom valves and valve springs, custom exhaust manifold, exhaust and race cat and revs up to 10500rpm; infact it has revved at 12000rpm for a short while during a dyno run. Even the block has been slightly bored an extra 20cc.

He claims that he can pass MOT tests if he uploads a more benign program to the ECU that will take him down to 200HP.

Of course the whole project took him months -and a few bent valves, he designed it himself and implemented it with the help of a tuner friend.
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Old 21-03-06
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Firstly, well done for getting where you are now.

You should be able to get a reliable 230-240Bhp from the 2.0 but it's not exactly cheap.

1. Your valves are too small. You need to increase the inlets to 35.5mm and exhaust to 29mm MINIMUM. Invest in titanium valves with an HVOF nickel/silicon coating on the guide region. They allow a flatter profile and significantly higher flow at low valve opening. This means you don't need extended valve overlap and the emission problems associated. The light ti also increases the rev limit of the valve train for the same spring stiffness - or use softer springs which sap less power from the engine.
2. Fit throttle bodies. These will flow and fuel correctly, all the air you need. A single TB will never achieve peak performance due to charge robbing and optimising fuelling ratio's
3. Fit a low ratio drive for your ancilliaries. Will release 5-6hp.
4. Fit a good 4-2-1 manifold and matched system. The exhaust, in conjunction with the cam, dictates the driveability of the car.
5. You'll need to make sure the internals are up to the task. Investing in good big-end bolts and gudgoen pins is a must. I'm not personally sure what the limits of the pistons and rods are, but forged items can be lighter for the same strength, and any reduction in inertia is energy saved.
6. Not strictly speaking a power gain, but lighten your flywheel - either by machining or purchase an aluminium item with pressed steel ring gear. Has the effect of significantly reducing the weight of the car - as it's spinning at engine rpm and the inertia involved, taking a couple of KG's off the flywheel is like 100Kg off the weight of the car in 1st gear!

James
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

thanks james, some good tips there. unfortunately the performance mods are going to have to wait as my on going suspension issues have came back to haunt me in the form of a small mouse!

come easter i should be over that magical 200hp barrier and charging towards the next one! exhaust system inc 4-2-1 and sports cat are next in line
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Maybe better brakes should come before more power...!
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

david, the brakes are going on over the next month or two also, just not quite decided what approach to take on them yet, i think uprated pads and disks all round will be enough but i need to look into it some more. for now the stock setup is managing fine...
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

If you can stretch to a 305mm Brembo setup the difference in braking is astounding. Not just ultimate braking power, but also the control and modulation you get with the 4-pot caliper.

You also get a more natural front-rear balance without the electronics getting involved.
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Old 21-03-06
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Crazed Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
mods to date are as follows (in no paticular order)

Custom CAI based on novitec induiction kit
bored out and polished TB
matched ports on intake/exhaust manifold
polished intake manifold
piper ultimate road cams (290deg i believe)
ECU remap

in the pipeline there is a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, custom stainless exhaust system to GTA style exit. also looking into a lightened flywheel to give her that little extra freedom in the revs. after that im not certain as to where i will go, i think as soon as i get it to 200bhp i will be changing the brakes tho! handles the power ok at the moment but i think there getting towards their limit!

as for being better in a manual? pah, then i dont have paddles to play with, double clutch and a very fast gear change! i lurve the selespeed system to be honest! so much fun!

ill try and get the dyno charts printed out tomorrow or wednesday, im in hospital tomorrow so might not have time. (done at my mates RR)
Hey marko, can you explain this for foreigners, cuz i cant understand this tech words
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Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

which parts?

modifications:

custom cai is cold air intake (induction kit designed to get cooler denser air)
boerd out and polished throttle body is exactly that, the throttle body made slightly larger to allow more air to flow, polishing it allows the air to flow smoother.
matched ports is making the inlet and exhaust ports the same size on the manifolds and the block, this again allows air to flow more freely.
the cams are just that, a reprofiled cam setup gives better performance, im not sure of the easiest way to explain this, maybe someone can help me out.
ECU remap is reprogramming of the engine control unit, the computer that controls air/fuel ratios, timing etc.

in the pipeline is the 4-2-1 manifold, this is the four tubes coming from the engine to the exhaust, one for each cylinder, the 4-2-1 refers to the construction, it starts as 4 branches at the engine, then joins to form two then finally forms again to form one, which is what the exhaust system itself joins to. custom stainless system is just that, a customised exhaust system made of stainless steel to allow good air flow. by lightening the flywheel you reduce engine inertia, meaning the engine has to do a little less work so it can rev easier, thus giving the effect of more power, this doesnt actaully increase BHP but makes the existing power more easily usable.

that ok?

oh, dyno charts are the printouts obtained from a rolling road session, they show power and torque at given engine speeds.

on to brakes... after a good 'play out' tonight i feel better brakes are needed, yes the stock ones are stopping me but im not sure how confident i feel with them, i seemed to have to apply a lot of force to the brake pedal to get a good result!
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Old 22-03-06
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Looky Looky Re: max hp from a 2.0ts NA engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
modifications:

custom cai is cold air intake (induction kit designed to get cooler denser air)
boerd out and polished throttle body is exactly that, the throttle body made slightly larger to allow more air to flow, polishing it allows the air to flow smoother.
matched ports is making the inlet and exhaust ports the same size on the manifolds and the block, this again allows air to flow more freely.
the cams are just that, a reprofiled cam setup gives better performance, im not sure of the easiest way to explain this, maybe someone can help me out.
ECU remap is reprogramming of the engine control unit, the computer that controls air/fuel ratios, timing etc.

in the pipeline is the 4-2-1 manifold, this is the four tubes coming from the engine to the exhaust, one for each cylinder, the 4-2-1 refers to the construction, it starts as 4 branches at the engine, then joins to form two then finally forms again to form one, which is what the exhaust system itself joins to. custom stainless system is just that, a customised exhaust system made of stainless steel to allow good air flow. by lightening the flywheel you reduce engine inertia, meaning the engine has to do a little less work so it can rev easier, thus giving the effect of more power, this doesnt actaully increase BHP but makes the existing power more easily usable.
LOL, you couldn't explain it better, i did understand most of the mods in your first post, but now it is impossible to missunderstand it.

I bought a full 147 GTA brake set, with calipers, disc and pads (only 170pounds, big bargain ), but im afraid they wont be easy to fit.
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