Upgraded oils - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 12 Old 23-01-13 Thread Starter
Status: Clutch is slipping :-/
AO Member
 
MikeRomeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 65

Member car:

159 V6 Q4 JTS

Crazed Upgraded oils

I'm in a pickle with the decision on what oil to get! I want the best oil possible for my v6 159 that is standard. Can I use racing oil will this be better and be good for my car? I've found this on the web below but didn't quite answer my question!

"Automotive street use oils that meet the latest industry standards are required to have a lower level of Zinc and Phosphorus anti-wear chemistries than oils formulated years ago. The latest automotive street use engine oils are designed to be compatible with emission control equipment. Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils to provide enhanced protection of highly loaded valve train systems found in some race engines. Based on the high level of anti-wear chemistries, Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use".

Please help anyone
MikeRomeo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 6,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRomeo View Post
" Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use".

Please help anyone
Doesn't that answer your question?

Ask a racer how often they change their oil!
Dave Brand is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
simon f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 16

Member car:

156 2.5

"Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use" looks like a reference to emissions control rather than street or track applications. Surely the anti-wear properties must still apply.

I have a question along similar lines.

I'm preparing a budget 2.5 V6 156 road legal track car and would like some advice on engine oil selection.

Engine has done 80k and seems to have been cared for (lots of receipts, sounds fine and goes well). I'm looking for an oil that will protect as much as possible but don't want to change oil every visit to the track.

Any advice from you engine experts greatly appreciated.
simon f is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 12 Old 23-01-13 Thread Starter
Status: Clutch is slipping :-/
AO Member
 
MikeRomeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 65

Member car:

159 V6 Q4 JTS

Enough said Dave ha I stay away thanks :-) I personally couldn't help there Simon but wish I could
MikeRomeo is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 802
AGIP 10 60 Racing

We have in stock ,I have used it for racing and road for 20 years ,top stuff

John
black cat is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
RobMsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 1,343
I use MILLERS OILS LTD 5w40 nanodrive in the engine & nanotech gearbox oil , in my race car . Millers make any spec oil for any purpose but have all the usual grades , classic , road and race , on the shelf. When I bought my 2.4 jtdm ti last year , I phoned their tech guy to ask which of their oils would do the very best job ----- he told me that the oil I am already using would be the best I could have for this engine ie. the race oil --- Millers nanodrive 5w40 , so that's what's in there and I'll ignore ALFA's advised 18,000miles service , it'll get drained after 8,000 miles.
The cost is irrelevant , oil's the cheapest thing you'll ever spend on your engine for longevity so do it lots --- parts are way more expensive !!!
RobMsport is offline  
Status: Overcomplicated battery!
AO Silver Member
 
metalgod23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,673
I did a lot of research on oils and have concluded that any branded oil that meets ACEA A3/B4 spec would be good enough. The thing to look for is the approval specs the oil has obtained.
Also as RobMsport has suggested, i would change the oil every 8k-10k on a diesel and every 10k-12k on a petrol. I have delayed the oil change on my 2.2 JTS to 15k miles last time and the old oil was black, co-inciding with a stretched cam chain problem.
So, any quality 5w40 oil like Castrol, Mobil1 or even Fuchs rated to ACAE A3/B4 is good for the engine.

Default oil for me is Mobil 1, 0W40 as its nice and thin when cold. Its cold starts that wear out engines.
If I was using the car on a track or in very hot weather 5W50 or even 10W60 (more for racing as Black Cat suggested above) might be better.


My background is in material and mechanical engineering and the below info I have gathered through some knowledgeable posters on other forums says it all.

Oil Specifications -To give you a break down of them taking Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 - specifications/approvals;
Ferrari - the only engine oil recommended by Ferrari
API SM/CF
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
VW 502.00 / VW 505.00 / VW 503.01
Mercedes Benz MB 229.5
BMW LL-01 / BMW Longlife-01
Fiat - Meets the requirements of Fiat 9.55535 Z2
Renault RN 0700 & Renault RN 0710
Porsche A40


API - american claims, easy enough to get, the SM claim means it's up to date (commercial oils are only just starting to move to SN, because this is mainly sold in europe they will be slower to change)
ACEA - already covered; A3/B4 is the highest spec you can get for standard oils (oils for DPF diesels are different)
VW specs - some of the most demanding available, confirms cam wear performance.
MB 229.5 - they rate the engine wear and require high quality base stock, good confirmation of engine cleanliness
Renault look at turbocharger deposits.
The rest don't really mean much

In the above example I'd be concerned if it only carries ACEA A3/B3 claims rather than A3/B4 - as it means it either had too high cam wear or poor piston cleanliness

Taking the Millers example, the nanodrive has a higher viscosity index so it's thicker at a given entrainment speed, you can get the same effect with any oil with a MB229.5 claim. So the Millers is not necessarily better or worse than any other oil with an equivalent or better test standard.

The issue with all of these performance oils is they are almost completely untested using industry standard tests. Just because they have better base oil in (typically different ester grades), doesn't make them perform better, in many cases changing the base stock to a higher quality type makes performance worse as it alters solubility levels of the combustion products and of the additives themselves. This is one of the reasons why performance oils require more frequent oil changes.

ACEA specs relate to performance as below:
A1/B1 - fuel economy oil, low performance
A3/B3 - standard oil, low performance
A3/B4 - standard oil, high performance <==== RECOMMENDED FOR ROAD USE
A5/B5 - fuel economy oil, high performance.

A3/B4 and A5/B5 are the only oils recommended for use in our road cars, simply because the price difference between them and the lower specs are minimal. A5/B5 from a formulation perspective is less robust than A3/B4 as it will generally use friction modifiers to gain the fuel economy performance, which reduces the performance of the anti-wear in the formulation.
There's also minimal gains from using a fuel economy oil in a passenger car as the test for fuel economy is using hardware which isn't representative of most cars and a cycle which doesn't relate to the real world.

In conclusion, more money doesn't make a better oil. The £30 Fuchs oil has better proven performance than for example the £70 Millers.

In brief, look through the specs before choosing an oil and always choose one that's best suited to your requirements. Although quality is important and frequent oil changes are the singularly most important preventative maintenance you do on an engine, more cost does not equate to a better oil.

=========================================
Giulia 2.0 T4 MA (2017), Triumph Speed Triple 'R' (2016).

Previous:
159 2.2 JTS - 2008 - Goodbye Feb 2017.
Ducati 899 Panigale - 2014 - 2016.
Kawasaki Ninja ZX 6R - 2004 - 2014.
=========================================

Last edited by metalgod23; 31-01-13 at 13:14.
metalgod23 is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
County: -
Posts: 64
What do others recommend for a standard G Diesel 170 hp, with me wishing to change the oil every 6 months ( regardless of type of drivng conditions )

Thanks for help.
sudagiulietta is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
Ralf S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The land that Time forgot
Posts: 13,073
As I understands it, pukka racing oils contain substances that protect the engine under extreme conditions (heat and pressure) but break down to form acidic by-products, which damage the engine parts if left in there for extended periods.

Racing engines obviously don't have any issues with oil being in there for very long periods... and if the engine parts are slightly attacked, it doesn't matter since part life is usually "hours" rather than thousands of miles.

My old v6 has 220k on it and cam/bore wear is insignificant. All it has had is Shell Helix or Selenia 10W40 all it's life.. and just 12,000 mile changes.

Use the grade that your manual says.. just change it at 2/3 of the recommended interval (my beast was slightly gummed/varnished with those 12k intervals... but mostly cosmetic rather than anything too severe).

For 10W40 you can do worse than Motul 8100. It has a ACEA B4 which relates to additional detergent properties compared to B3 so it behaves with the cleaning power of a synthetic oil.


Ralf S.

No bullets for Chaingun..
Ralf S. is offline  
Status: Replaced Water Pump, All Good.
AO Member
 
KiwiAlfa156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Zealand
County: Auckland
Posts: 136
Any reputable brand A3/B4 preferably synthetic oil in the correct grade will protect your engine if changed at the correct intervals. Google and download "The Oil Bible" for the good oil (pun intended) on oil. and if you really want to make your head spin visit the "Bob is the Oil Guy" website, where there is more information on motor oils than you'd every possibly want to know.
KiwiAlfa156 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudagiulietta View Post
What do others recommend for a standard G Diesel 170 hp, with me wishing to change the oil every 6 months ( regardless of type of driving conditions )
Any oil of the correct spec.
Which is ACEA C2 5W30.
David C is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
RobMsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 1,343
Contact MILLERS OILS LTD in Yorkshire , tell them you car model and ask for the best protection and their tech guy will advise. I run my 159 2.4 ti on Millers 5w40 nanodrive , a racing oil but will drain it at 8000 miles max.
RobMsport is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Engines (TS, JTS, JTD & V6)

Tags
oils , upgraded

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome