Waterpumps: when to change? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Waterpumps: when to change?

There's been a lot of discussion about when water pumps should be replaced. We know the 1.9JTD is a particular problem and has a habit of seizing, and V6 pumps with plastic impellors crack and should be replaced with the 3.0 metal type.

But recommendations on TS pumps have not been consistent .. and even I must admit I was one of those ...

I had my cambelt replaced yesterday. A bit overdue at around 44K miles. Last time I had a new water pump as the old one was leaking ... and that was the original, so had lasted 127,000 miles! Not bad I thought ..

The replacement, with 44000 miles on it, went it the bin yesterday. The bearing was shot.

So I think I'm joining the "change the belts, change the pump" brigade .. adds about £50 to the bill but had the pump seized or collapsed, I was looking at a much larger bill!!!

cheers, Gary

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Last edited by gazza82; 13-12-11 at 15:29.
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I'm really interested in peoples responses to this as my belt change is coming up and i'm tight...

If it works, leave well alone??

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IMHO as the water pump isn't masses of £££ I would get it changed every cambelt change (35k/3 years) on the TS engines.

That is the current plan with mine, 33k till next one.
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I'm really interested in peoples responses to this as my belt change is coming up and i'm tight...

If it works, leave well alone??

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You just can't call it one way or the other. Its like saying "shall I play the lottery tonight?" you could argue no, because the chances are you won't win. But you could argue yes because there is a chance you might.

Basically, its either spend a bit extra money, and have a bit less risk. Or spend less money, and accept some more risk.
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cambelt + waterpump ... end of ... no discussion (plus variator on the TS)
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Now variators are a different matter ... make sure the oil is changed regularly and it should last a lot longer than a water pump! Half the time, noisy variators are just due to low or thin oil. And as they are about twice the price of a pump and mean a lot more labour, it is the one item I would think twice about doing that regularly.

I've only had two variators in the life of the TS and it's now 13 years old: one was under first year of warranty so in under 12000 miles! The 2nd was around 73K or 82K ... that one is still there and as quiet as a mouse.
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I think the risk is very low on a Twinnie but for the money just not worth just ignoring it.

My plan is every other belt change.
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Now variators are a different matter ... make sure the oil is changed regularly and it should last a lot longer than a water pump! Half the time, noisy variators are just due to low or thin oil. And as they are about twice the price of a pump and mean a lot more labour, it is the one item I would think twice about doing that regularly.

I've only had two variators in the life of the TS and it's now 13 years old: one was under first year of warranty so in under 12000 miles! The 2nd was around 73K or 82K ... that one is still there and as quiet as a mouse.
I agree there is no need to change the variator every belt change, as long as the oil is kept clean and topped up. Mine is now 11 years old and is still fine, but I will be changing it with the belt change next year as I think 12 years is probably about long enough
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I think the risk is very low on a Twinnie but for the money just not worth just ignoring it.

My plan is every other belt change.
Ditto.
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That was my plan .. shame the quality of parts isn't up to it in some cases.
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I spoke to a man from an Alfa dealership, ' change everytime the cambelt is due' is what he said...

Close thread.
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TS engine cambelt 3year 36k end.

Water pumps every 72k I'd say as you just don't here of them failing like on the 1.9 JTD although my one did 100k + on the TS.

Variators seem to go around the 90k mark so I'd do em every 72k

As for your 44k cambelt change gazza.....go buy a lottery ticket. Your luck must be good ATM
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I spoke to a man from an Alfa dealership, ' change everytime the cambelt is due' is what he said...

Close thread.
I think he was just doing his best to hit December's sales targets

I can't remember the last time I saw a TS with a knackered waterpump. I'm not saying you shouldn't change them, but they hardly ever go wrong in my experience.
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2.4 10v and 1.9 8v are also reliable, its just 1.9 16v & 2.4 20v that are always going wrong, and the plastic impellor version of the V6 waterpump.
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I spoke to a man from an Alfa dealership, ' change everytime the cambelt is due' is what he said...

Close thread.
Oh yeah, 'cos the average Alfa dealer is known to be full of good knowledge

At least changing it every change would mean it never failing I suppose.
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I think he was just doing his best to hit December's sales targets

I can't remember the last time I saw a TS with a knackered waterpump. I'm not saying you shouldn't change them, but they hardly ever go wrong in my experience.
With 30 years of mechanical experience in an Alfa workshop and a personal friend I think not!
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I think he was just doing his best to hit December's sales targets

I can't remember the last time I saw a TS with a knackered waterpump. I'm not saying you shouldn't change them, but they hardly ever go wrong in my experience.
I would be of the same opinion. But I knew of an engine that was laid up for a year and the seals on the pump dried out that is the only time I have heard of a pump going. They are rarely replaced over here even the dealer I used was looking at me mad when I said the WP was leaking. He has rarely replaced them. Also variators as the lads have said once the oil is watched they generally last a good 70k miles before going clattery.
 
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I asked Tony today out of interest, he is the person who strips down our TS engines for spares and obviously checks all components as it is coming apart, he says he hasn't seen a failed TS waterpump yet and he's been with us for a year stripping down approx 5 engines a week on average. Most common reasons for stripping them down is cambelt failure, followed closely by bottom end failure.
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I asked Tony today out of interest, he is the person who strips down our TS engines for spares and obviously checks all components as it is coming apart, he says he hasn't seen a failed TS waterpump yet and he's been with us for a year stripping down approx 5 engines a week on average. Most common reasons for stripping them down is cambelt failure, followed closely by bottom end failure.

Just playing devils advocate ... but TS engines don't normally destroy themselves when the waterpump goes, so if a water pump had failed the owner is more likely to get a new one put on rather than bin the engine?? which is probably why he hasn't seen any failed waterpumps ... if an engine had failed due to overheating then the most likely culprite would be the radiator as they are well know to be made of chocolate
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Just playing devils advocate ... but TS engines don't normally destroy themselves when the waterpump goes, so if a water pump had failed the owner is more likely to get a new one put on rather than bin the engine?? which is probably why he hasn't seen any failed waterpumps ... if an engine had failed due to overheating then the most likely culprite would be the radiator as they are well know to be made of chocolate
If one seizes it will burn through the cambelt just like a 16/20v diesel one will, as its basically the exact same design as the multivalve diesels. Waterpump pulley is driven by the smooth side of the cambelt. If they were prone to seizure causing belt failure like the 16/20v diesel ones were then there'd be reports of it on here, and we'd have been fixing them. I've heard of a couple cracking and spinning on the shaft like the V6 plastic ones do on here, but only a couple of them, and I've never seen one personally.

I'm not saying its not worth changing them, they are cheap as chips, but there are loads of other cheap parts that can cause terminal damage if they fail and people don't change them every 36k. Rubber coolant pipes is one good example.

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I can't remember the last time I saw a TS with a knackered waterpump.
Dan ... there was one in your workshop Monday .. mine!!
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You can buy waterpumps for about £25, i change them if i dont know the history of the engine. If i know when they are changed its every other belt change. I've seen lots of worn ones, sloppy ones some with damaged impelers and one melted one. But none of them cause engine damage...
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Dan ... there was one in your workshop Monday .. mine!!
Probably this thread that jinxed it!
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Nah .. started it AFTER your mechanics changed it ..

That's what prompted me to start it. Having had the first one last 100K+ years and then start to leak, I was a bit surprised the replacement only lasted 40K ... like a lot of owners I was thinking I'd change it every two belts, but now I'm convinced it's a 3 year/36K job.
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Having seen my water pump drive boss cracked at the very first cambelt service, I have it routinely replaced each time around... It's a very small price to pay when you consider the probability of warped cylinder heads etc in the event of failure.

I had an 'on-the-road' water pump failure many years ago with a Fiat Bravo 1.8 GT... There was a faint gurgling noise which drew my attention immediately to the temp gauge which was heading off the clock. I backed off immediately and pulled over to the hard shoulder, but before I even came to a stop there was no compression and the engine was dead. The required engine rebuild would have cost more than the car was worth at the time.
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