Bussone Evolution - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Bussone Evolution

If money was no object, how would you evolve the Bussone V6 to be.

More economical
More reliable
Meet current and future (say plus 5 years) emissions legislation
More competitive

Whilst retaining the character of the engine.

Discuss



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I guess better intake, variable timing, good mapping, and maybe direct injection could make it pass EURO5 and be competitive for a few next years.
Maybe lower friction materials inside, Multiair technology....

But imagining 4 Fiat variators inside would probably kill the reliability and direct injection or multiair would kill part of its character...

I guess the changes above could bring also about 20-30 perc better efficiency. With electrical steering, variable waterpump and alternator on clutch working just when needed could make it even more economical.

In my eyes the main point of a car manufacturer why it didn't have sense to keep its development was its size. Its just huge block extremely limiting the whole concept and design of the car. Limiting steering, dimensions, ground clearance, safety space between engine and bonnet, cooling, length of the front part, understeer... I have seen smaller V8 engines side by side.... Its the same size, maybe even bigger than Ferrari V8 in Lancia Thema 8.32....

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no thanks... the busso is perfect as is... many of the variable intakes and esp direct injection are more trouble then they are worth and are $$ to fix...

i like the busso being serviceable and relatively simple as is...
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Yes, the engine is pretty big, though being aluminium keeps the weight down a bit.

I was surprised how far apart the cylinders are.. It uses wet liners so you'd imagine the cylinders would be much closer together.. but there's a good inch between eash liner. It must have colossal crank journals... and bearings the size of a battleship's..

I would modernise the beast by making it more compact. The latest technology and materials must be able to provide lighter pistons, crank, con-rods and other parts that just weren't available when Pepe designed the beast back in the 1970's..

That would allow smaller bearing components, less mass in the engine and so a shorter crank and therefore a smaller engine. I'd suggest that the beast could grow 2 more cylindri and stay the same size.. The beast would make a 3ltr v8 .. easy.

In the heads, it really needs direct injection, variable intake and the whole latest multi-air doodah.

The bore is enormous... so if I was Busso junior, I would do something a bit saucy... I'd put 5 valves per cylinder like Yamaha did with their FZR750 motorcycle engine.. (3 inlet, 2 exhaust) radially arranged around the cylinder with a central spark plug.

Drive the whole lot by gears and stick a "Quarrantavalvole" badge on the boot..

I think one of the inlet valves was smaller than the others, to make it all fit.. and no, it didn't make a huge amount of difference... but it's a unique feature much like the old T/Spark that says whoever made this engine knows something...

Agreed the engine is a bit tall.. stick a dry sump on it.. open out the "v" angle a bit (say to 90) and turn it round longitudinally again... it drives the rear wheels.

Ralf S.

No bullets for Chaingun..

Last edited by Ralf S.; 23-11-11 at 07:24.
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Add a Turbo to it.
They should have grown the old 12v 2.0 V6 turbo into a 24v 3.2 V6 Turbo.
If turbo isn’t a option work on the heads the bottom end although bulky is brilliant.
If they did the headwork on it the same way they did on the 159 Brera 3.2 it would be a brilliant modern motor with a bottom end we all love and respect.
In my opinion the 159 would have sold a lot better with a Busso based motor.
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Please, keep it as it is and build some more. A classic hemi-head that goes on and on. Just turn it to face the direction it was designed to point in and we can service it a little easier.
(The thoughts of a driver, not an engine designer)
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Be careful what you ask for next Alfa start using Audi gearboxes then the motor will sit even further forward.
Nice old Sud configuration.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonutters View Post
Be careful what you ask for next Alfa start using Audi gearboxes then the motor will sit even further forward.
Nice old Sud configuration.
Not if you put the Audi box in the rear sub-frame and use an torque tube to connect them come on ALFA you can do it
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....and call it a 75?
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....and call it a 75?
the 75 had a shaft on bearings, the 8C has a torque tube
think it is time for a new Alfa RWD Front engine 2+2 cough GTV 917

Last edited by BADfish10; 10-01-12 at 22:36.
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Not if you put the Audi box in the rear sub-frame and use an torque tube to connect them come on ALFA you can do it
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Alfa RWD Front engine 2+2 cough GTV 917

I want one where can I place my order.
Especially if they position a Busso with a turbo in front.
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Originally Posted by turbonutters View Post
In my opinion the 159 would have sold a lot better with a Busso based motor.
159 with a developed Busso motor agreed, this would have given so much character to an already fantastic looking car.

Great thread Ghosty, btw. Anyone have photos of the evolution of the Busso over the years? (unmodified).
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I should have some I will have a look

From the 2.5 carb motor to the 2.5 & 3.0 injection rwd, 2.5 & 3.0 injection fwd and then the 24v motors.
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Unfortunately no unmolested picks with me.
Carb motor upgraded to injection

3.0 24v
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My old 2.5v 12v, completely standard apart from the paint and braided fuel lines.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...s/861c5fb6.jpg
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That engine blew up BTW, massive bottom end failure. it was scrapped

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/motor...-progress.html
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Quote:
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That engine blew up BTW, massive bottom end failure. it was scrapped

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/motor...-progress.html
Great photos, Any ideas what caused this catastrophe? I always feel a little sad when i hear of Busso failures
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I imagine multiair heads would be an interesting upgrade.
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Quote:
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Great photos, Any ideas what caused this catastrophe? I always feel a little sad when i hear of Busso failures
it appears they don't like standing still for extended periods
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I have a few designes for a completly variable set of inlet runners that would probably be awlsome on an evolution motor, In addition you would need some form of vanos system to be safe lifting it straight off a BM would be the way to go. some type of direct injection would also be needed.
But to keep it a busso you need to leave the bottom end alone, you would also have to keep the bore/ piston travel as is. a dry sump would not be out of the question though but maybe out of budget for a large scale manufacturing run.

To add reliabilaty moving over to chain driven cam's and possibly a variable speed water pump "still driven by the block".
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if i was to evolve the v6 for use in my car and had unlimited funds to do so i reckon a proper 3.8 some good torquey cams decent work done to the heads and make it breath properly and then have a selector in the car for type of map to suit driving
e.g.
- Economy mode (great for motorway cruising)
- Normal road use
- Mad power map (great for when the need takes you)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf S. View Post
so if I was Busso junior, I would do something a bit saucy...
Quite sorry to say that if you were Busso junior you would not care at all about the jewel your father created and you would be driving a Porsche... pretty sad to see, expecially when you use it to come to an Alfa meeting, but that's it.
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