This is a tough one Tappet noise after Variator Change. - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 25 Old 07-09-11 Thread Starter
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This is a tough one Tappet noise after Variator Change.

Guys, i'm a little stumped...

I changed the CAM Belt Kit, Water pump and Variator on a 1.8 TS for a Forum member (virmanih) this week, typical diesel noise on startup. All went timed up with block set TDC with dial gauge, turned car over buy hand great stuff.

Start the Car let it idle to warm up, rev the car to 2750 rpm nasty tappet sound, drop below and it stops.
I have come accross this before and disconnected the variator solenoid rev it all sweet plug it back noise again.

So far i have changed the
Variator Solinoid
Solinoid Plunger
Checked Timing 2 or 3 times all smack on...
Checked for fault codes none (other than a misfire on pot one which turned out to be a badly corroded coil pack i changed all 4 to be sure)
Replaced the New variator for one i had in stock (its about 18mth old but was new in a box)

I've run thing through with SMAKY (alex) and followed his advice and still non the wiser?

Things i think its not, timing, coilpacks, CAM sensor, variator, solinoid,...

Thinking out loud, how many teeth should the timing belt for a 1.8 have? the belt fitted has 166...

Answer on a stamped addressed envelope... I hate unsolved mysteries... and i've lost faith in myself a little...

Last edited by biffa; 07-09-11 at 20:25.
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if belt teeth where wrong eventually pistons would hit valves so correct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davealfa11 View Post
if belt teeth where wrong eventually pistons would hit valves so correct
When you look at a fault long enough even wacky thoughts seems to make sense
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When you look at a fault long enough even wacky thoughts seems to make sense
sometimes we look tooooooo deep into things and it may actually a simple thing to fix so step back a bit
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Not sure I understand you, when you say you've come across this before?

So the noise is above 2750 AND when the variatior plugged in AND warmned up?

Does it go away at high revs? Can you check it correlates exactly with the variatior signal (voltmeter)? Have you taken it for a spin? My GTV has a broken exhaust manifold mount that sounded very tappy once
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Not sure I agree Dave, if inlet cam is out out by x teeth (belt too long between crank and inlet cam) inlet valves will be late closing and this would be compounded by the retarding action of the variatior?

Slack due to incorrect belt taken up in tensioner and not noticed...

But i'd have thought this would bend the inlet values straight away?

Its late and i'm almost asleep so this is hard to visualise!!

Did you use cam locks?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle4288 View Post
Not sure I agree Dave, if inlet cam is out out by x teeth (belt too long between crank and inlet cam) inlet valves will be late closing and this would be compounded by the retarding action of the variatior?

Slack due to incorrect belt taken up in tensioner and not noticed...

But i'd have thought this would bend the inlet values straight away?

Its late and i'm almost asleep so this is hard to visualise!!

Did you use cam locks?
i stand corrected correct that slack would be taken out with tensioner as pitch on teeth are the same
OP has checked with dti and cam locks ..........so no issue there i believe
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(Post Link) post #8 of 25 Old 08-09-11 Thread Starter
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I will check the old belt, but its suppose to have a belt with 166 teeth on it according to the supplier's.

When i said i've had this same issue before, i have an old 146 2.0 and it did the same thing, it was driven around for a month or 2 with the variator disconnected and when plugged back in work as it should normally... very odd that no one else has come across this and i've had it happen twice...
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just to kill the belt issue, both old and new belts were 166 teeth...

FeS confirms the noise starts the second the variator is operated...
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How loud is the noise, and how long has the engine been run since it was changed?

It is quite normal for a new variator to tick for a few minutes until it properly fills with oil.
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Its very tappety, and its been a couple of days. No real change, i expected some noise for a short period but this is not normal noise for a new variator...
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This might sound strange, but did you remove the spark plug in cylinder 1 to fit a DTI?

If you have forgotten to tighten the plug fully it can give a tapping noise.

Other than that, I am not sure.
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Quote:
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This might sound strange, but did you remove the spark plug in cylinder 1 to fit a DTI?

If you have forgotten to tighten the plug fully it can give a tapping noise.

Other than that, I am not sure.
All the plugs are tight...
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(Post Link) post #15 of 25 Old 09-09-11 Thread Starter
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Same car, owners thread...
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Could the thread have slipped on the variator after the engine was started? Seems very unlikely...
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hi when i changed my 356 1.8 ts cam belt it tapped even after afew miles of driving but i was given some wynns lifter addertive (from halfords ) and it was ok after that
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hi when i changed my 156 1.8 ts cam belt it tapped even after afew miles of driving but i was given some wynns lifter addertive (from halfords ) and it was ok after that
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could it be loss of pressure to the followers once the variator is activated..in other words a hydraulic follower prob..
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could it be loss of pressure to the followers once the variator is activated..in other words a hydraulic follower prob..
what seadart said. Low pressure caused by high mileage/worn lifters or ovalisation of the lifter seats.
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There's a guy on another site..can't remember where.. who suggested that 'variator rattle' is in fact 'hydraulic lifter rattle' caused by a combination of worn lifters and a worn oil seal in the variator robbing the lifters of oil pressure..

How do we know that the 'rattle' is coming from the variator????????????????????????????????..

Fair enough changing the variator or the variator oil seal often cures the rattle.. but how do we know it's the variator and not the hydraulic lifters ??? If the lifters are really, really shagged then changing the variator will make no difference..

At high revs the variator is venting oil pressure back to the sump.. if the lifters are worn a sufficient oil pressure cannot be maintained.. hence lifter rattle.. that's why sticking snake oil..oil glue.. or additives or 10 60 oil in there will usually shut it up.. ???????????????????????

Last edited by seadart; 12-09-11 at 18:41.
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(Post Link) post #22 of 25 Old 13-09-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seadart View Post
There's a guy on another site..can't remember where.. who suggested that 'variator rattle' is in fact 'hydraulic lifter rattle' caused by a combination of worn lifters and a worn oil seal in the variator robbing the lifters of oil pressure..

How do we know that the 'rattle' is coming from the variator????????????????????????????????..

Fair enough changing the variator or the variator oil seal often cures the rattle.. but how do we know it's the variator and not the hydraulic lifters ??? If the lifters are really, really shagged then changing the variator will make no difference..

At high revs the variator is venting oil pressure back to the sump.. if the lifters are worn a sufficient oil pressure cannot be maintained.. hence lifter rattle.. that's why sticking snake oil..oil glue.. or additives or 10 60 oil in there will usually shut it up.. ???????????????????????

This is also my theory, if look at where the oil is drawn it has the potential to reduce oil pressure at the tappets on cyl1... i had no more time to prove this as the car went back to the owner. I think if i would of have the time i would of fitted new tappet to the inlet cam and gone from there. The car had done 130k miles... although under the rocker cover it seemed like a very much younger engine...

Last edited by biffa; 13-09-11 at 23:09.
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Hi picked my car up today from the dealers and I am officially 891.00 poorer.

They changed the variator valve solenoid
cam seal
variator
cam belt

The mechanic did say somehow the timing was not done right when the cam belt was changed and it resulted in the variator working hard to adjust the timing and which resulted in the valve solenoid getting shot, they had to change the belt again as it had lost the tension because it was taken off a few times. P155ER.
The car goes perfectly fine now and thats the only good thing that came out of this episode.

You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive.

Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
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(Post Link) post #24 of 25 Old 21-09-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virmanih View Post
The Car Owner

Hi picked my car up today from the dealers and I am officially 891.00 poorer.

They changed the variator valve solenoid
cam seal
variator
cam belt

The mechanic did say somehow the timing was not done right when the cam belt was changed and it resulted in the variator working hard to adjust the timing and which resulted in the valve solenoid getting shot, they had to change the belt again as it had lost the tension because it was taken off a few times. P155ER.
The car goes perfectly fine now and thats the only good thing that came out of this episode.
I'm glad its sorted, did they give you any of the parts back?
I'd be intrested in testing them on one of my cars?
I too swapped the solenoid, CAM seal and the Variator (twice)??? As you know you watched...
I dont think the solenoid was at fault its been unplugged all this time, and The variator you had 2 new ones same issue.
That leaves the timing, and as you see by my GTV thread, that is exactly how i did your car

Would you be able to pass on the details of the dealer and the guys who did the work as i'm intrested in knowing what it was i did wrong???

I have started my GTV project and in detail documented how i do belt changes...

Last edited by biffa; 22-09-11 at 00:34.
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What was the conclusion of the thread started in the GT forum?? I thought that one suggested it was a bad earth which seemed plausible?
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