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Crazed Alright - who makes better engines?

Guys,
Help me end a debate with my mates.....

Comparing an Alfa to a Honda, who produces the better engines? Certainly, in terms of styling and ride/handling, we all know who wins hands down....and in terms of reliability, we know the answer as well

But engines.... Honda's got their VTEC system, and Alfa, their Twin Spark and now JTS - which one is the better designed engine in terms of specific output, torque range and power in yer opinion?
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(Post Link) post #2 of 27 Old 27-10-04 Thread Starter
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Might as well throw in Toyota's VVTi and VVTLi engines as well - since the Elise uses it too! Is Toyota starting to produce 'exciting' engines too!?
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

How often do you need to change the timing belt on an 8500rpm VTEC engine - I bet it's not every 36k miles.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Honda make the "better" engines, but Alfa engines have more character.
You can't measure it, but that's what makes them special.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Toyota ... exciting engines ...

Dunno about the modern Alfa engines, but the alfa boxer is the best engine in the world
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasi
Toyota ... exciting engines ...

Dunno about the modern Alfa engines, but the alfa boxer is the best engine in the world
Just visited my local Alfa dealer to book my car in for a service.

In the show room they had a 2003 model 911 Turbo (don't know the exact model number) with 278km's on the clock - asking price 107,500 Euro - now that would be a great engine.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascs
Just visited my local Alfa dealer to book my car in for a service.

In the show room they had a 2003 model 911 Turbo (don't know the exact model number) with 278km's on the clock - asking price 107,500 Euro - now that would be a great engine.
Best engine ? Porsche 6 cylinder boxer engine from the 993
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Mmmm..... The Honda engines never did it for me, although at my last job I was a Honda Technician. True they goes like stink when the VTEC changes the cam profile, but they never sounded nice. As for reliability... Honda is changing cylinder heads on the current range of CRV's because of valve stem failure. Not to mention the very same engine like as quart of oil now and again. And the S2000, How does big end bearing failure because of inadequate lubrication sound to you
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Whats with the caliper Hoygs?
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

I dont know how this baby sounds, but it's surely one nifty piece of engineering


@Pasc: It's GTA caliper's I'm trying to fit to my Selespeed
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Guys,
Now now, forget about them Porsche Turbos and all....*** for tat, 1.6TS engine churns out 120hp, Civic's 1.6VTi does 116hp (from memory), same with the 2.0 lits.....doesn't that suggest that Alfa engines are more powerful? Or is it only the noise that Alfa excels in? ......And the Hondas have the S2000 and Integra/Accord Type Rs....those have high cams like there's no tomorrow when the cams are 'hot'! Why doesn't Alfa do a super-duper 2.0 lit gutsy one?
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

[QUOTE=Hoygaard]I dont know how this baby sounds, but it's surely one nifty piece of engineering

Hoygs,
That's the new M5 V10 engine right?
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Yep

507 Horsepowers, double vanos, knock sensing via ionised sparkplugs, 10 intake butterfly valves, four pickup oilpumps, variable flow main oilpump, extremely lightweight piston and connecting rods and three processor ECU. Awesome
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

why is it only the 2L we're comparing? what happened to the V6s? ur telling me honda makes a better 6-pot than this?!



u gotta be kidding?! also, yes honda makes a very aggressive vtec engine found in the type-r. these are basically factory-tuned variants of their stock engines. in stock form, honda engines aren't worth the metal they're made from. they have no torque, no drivability, u need to rev them to make any power and when u do rev them they sound like an asthmatic on a treadmill.

and the honda gearboxes, dont even get me started on those! only good for 0-100! try to take it on a motorway cruise at 210kph for 1 hr and u better have a spare gearbox waiting at the end of the trip.

reliability: u ever miss a shift in a type-r? can we say new valves?

sorry, but i like hondas about as much as i like bimmers.

which is to say not very much.

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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Best engine ever?
The 5.3 litre V8 in the 80's Aston Martin Vantage

Although I'll admit they didn't do it too much harm when they added two superchargers to it for the 90's Vantage
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

think i'd rather have the honda engine than that aston one.was'nt up to much in the 70/80's although the car did look good
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

I wonder what would the answers be if the same question was asked in a Honda forum..

I dont know about character or non character engines, but as an ex biker I know that the only car that strongly gave me a superbike feeling was the S2000. And I strongly doubt if AR is capable of creating a non turboed 2lt 240bhp engine that wont explode in the first 1000 km. Drivability of the TS engine is far better in traffic as mentioned above, but thats not enough imho, each engine has its own pros and cons. And I am certain that most of us would like the S2000 engine under our Alfa bonnet.... I trust Hoygaard's criteria, but I m not sure if I would have 18 problems in 3 years with a Honda, as I had with the Alfa...
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

I love the Honda V-tec's and I've owned 2. Fantastic sound when the vtec cuts in and screams all the way to the 8500rpm red line. Very reliable too in my experience. Cam belt change is 60k miles for the first one, but Honda was sensible and used a reinforced cambelt on them. I would buy another one. I sold the first one to get something even quicker and the second because I needed a bigger car at the time.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Bit like comparing Delia Smith with a supermodel Pro's and Con's to owning either but as good as Delia is at Cooking (and probably ironing) you'd still go for the supermodel....
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

The new advert for their diesels is pretty good!

Mind you I'd still roost the entire range of their diesels...they just might not be able to see much in the clouds of smoke I would trail!

As for the cars I've never really looked twice at one as they are dull as dull can be! They may be reliable etc, but parts are pricey (from what a mate tells me - like Alfas!) and they have no character! Sorry
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

No question.... Honda makes better engines. But they don't generally put them in their cars.... Pop into your local motorbike dealer and have a look at a Honda Fireblade engine... 180 ish claimed horses from 1000cc, as well as being light, narrow, and reliable. Now look at the CBR600RR... over 100 bhp at 13000rpm from 600cc. Honda also have a very good F1 engine. As much as I love Alfas I don't think they could get close.

All engines are a compromise... what you perceive as the better engine depends on how the manufacturer's priorities line up with yours. The reason most people reading this drive Alfa's not Honda's is that they prefer the Alfa priority set. Honda could never build an Alfa... their number one priority is reliability, not performance, even in their performance cars. Alfa's seem to be character and performance first with reliability somewhere near the bottom of the list.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

i agree tottally with your second paragraph, but the first one is compairing bike engines to car engines,where torque is a more important issue in a car than on a bike,and although bike engines are reliable with many people getting 100000 miles from their engines they are still nowhere near as reliable long term compaired to car engines.
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

One of my friends has bought a Civic Type-R. It has a 2.0 engine, 200 HP and with an ECU Remap and AEM Cold Air Intake is showed 199 HP at the wheels. That's about 220 HP at flywheel.

The engine is impressive and when the i-VTEC changes the camshaft profile at 6.500rpm it goes like a small rocket till reaches 8.500rpm.

On the other hand the car is very simple, good build quality but the materials are cheap. it has no ASR, no ESP, no Bordcomputer, no A/C, not event a display for trip

But would i trade my 147 for a CT-R ? Hell no
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Porsche 993 !!!!
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Re: Alright - who makes better engines?

Aiculedtzu That's one hell of a piccy Jeez that Type-R is ugly compared to your beauty
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