1.9 JTDm 16v - Injector Correction Values / Knocking Noise - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 18-05-11 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 3

Member car:

147 Sport Q2

1.9 JTDm 16v - Injector Correction Values / Knocking Noise

I hope someone can help.
I've looked at other similar posts on here and thought i'd ask for peoples thoughts.

The car is an 08 plate 147 Sport Q2 with the 1.9 JTDm 16v inside.
It's been developing a knock on the engine which has been getting gradually louder since i bought the car in Jan.
I know diesels aren't meant to be the quietest (ive owned diesels before), but this is something that sounds wrong. I've had people comment asking if the car is OK when i've picked them up.

When first starting in the morning its sounds like an absolute bag of spanners, and once warmed up its quieter but i can still hear it.
The MPG round town is shocking aswell, I can drive 25 miles down the M6 after work and the fuel gauge wont move, or if it does marginally. But when i get off and drive through town about 3 miles to get home its almost as if i can see it moving (it will drop abt 2 marks on the fuel gauge).
When sat on the drive for 10mins when warm while i was pulling stats off with FiatECUScan, the gauge dropped another chunk.
I've had intermittent hard to starts aswell. The engine would turn over for 2-3 secs then fire up with a plume of whitish smoke emitted from the exhaust.
I've attached a screenshot of the Injector Correction Values from FES, which from reading other peoples posts i think are high and could be causing my issues??
ECUINJ.jpg
(These were taken after a 35mile run on Motorway & A roads without turning the engine off, so should be right warmed up!)

Now heres the best part.
I've taken it in to my local Alfa Garage, which is where i bought it from in the first place, and explained all these points. They've turned round and flattly said that they cannot find anything at fault with the car! I was gobsmacked.

Am i over-reacting, or do you think like i do that i have possibly 2 faulty injectors???

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
MBatey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
For earlier engines the correction numbers should be within +-0.9mm3/inj, but yours is a JTDm which has narrower margins of just +-0.4mm3/inj
So yes that could be a problem (but it could also be something else causing this high correction factors as a consequence).
Find a specialist who can test the injectors on the professional Bosch equipment and get them cleaned/renewed if necessary. After that injectors must be calibrated, each one will get a new identification number which must be programmed back into the ECU...
Where I live cleaning costs 50-80€ and complete rework of a faulty injector is somewhere 120-200€.
TribesMan is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Also you could get the cylinder compression test done... wont hurt.
TribesMan is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 18 Old 19-05-11 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 3

Member car:

147 Sport Q2

Thanks Tribesman. Appreciate that.

Just picked it up last night from the garage, where i expressed my displeasure.
At least that made me feel better and get me money off the diagnostic bill.

I cant believe the service from the main dealer though, its the last time i use them. Just a flat refusal to accept anything might be wrong.
For close to 100 per hour i honestly must love throwing money away on these made up problems!!

I'm gonna take it elsewhere in the summer when i have some time off and get them checked like you said.
MBatey is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
losa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I would rather not say
County: -
Posts: 102
Could be one of injectors misfiring (go to BOSCH specialist to check and recondition them if necesary)
or
Could be faulty valve tappets making that noise.


If these values are taken when car was idling, I'd say no1 and no3 are bad.
But you need to do that test when driving (when the noise is bad) and see which injector has biggest corrections.
And the best way to diagnose the faulty one is BOSCH test bench...
losa is offline  
(Post Link) post #6 of 18 Old 19-05-11 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 3

Member car:

147 Sport Q2

When the engine gets revved to 2000rpm the corrections on all 4 drop to about 0.2
MBatey is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
losa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I would rather not say
County: -
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBatey View Post
When the engine gets revved to 2000rpm the corrections on all 4 drop to about 0.2
Probably when car is stationary.

Try to read these values when car is accelerating (engine under load).
losa is offline  
Status: GTV RIP
AO Silver Member
 
zulu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Shropshire
Posts: 1,037

Member car:

159Ti

Will be interested to see how you progress with this. My 1.9 sounds similar and I suspect an injector issue. It's noisy under load up to about 2500 rpm where is seems to get quieter, but even so just sound like a loud ticking.
has been in to dealer for to investigate a couple of times (last week, and they identified a faulty Fan ECU which is on order) but they can't find anything wrong. I've had the engine management light coming on repeatedly and they can't fathom that out either (doesn't give you much faith does it)
In summary, the best they have offered so far is 'It's probably just a 'noisy' injector, or two. They sometimes are like that, nothing wrong, just some are noisier than others!!!'

It will be due for it's first major service in 2000 miles, and I don't want to take it to the dealer, rather my preferred specialist. Just worried about repercussions of any faults that he identifies that should be fixed under warranty.
zulu is offline  
Status: Trying to fix my 159
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Spain
County: Valencia
Posts: 117

Member car:

Alfa 159 2.4

I have in my 159 2.4 jtdm 200 cv values between 0.10 and 0.70, but when AC connected, these values change drasticaly, so whey rise at 1,12 an 1,00 in 3 injectors. Is that normal?
adrianuxx is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
losa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I would rather not say
County: -
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulu View Post
Will be interested to see how you progress with this. My 1.9 sounds similar and I suspect an injector issue. It's noisy under load up to about 2500 rpm where is seems to get quieter, but even so just sound like a loud ticking.
has been in to dealer for to investigate a couple of times (last week, and they identified a faulty Fan ECU which is on order) but they can't find anything wrong. I've had the engine management light coming on repeatedly and they can't fathom that out either (doesn't give you much faith does it)
In summary, the best they have offered so far is 'It's probably just a 'noisy' injector, or two. They sometimes are like that, nothing wrong, just some are noisier than others!!!'

It will be due for it's first major service in 2000 miles, and I don't want to take it to the dealer, rather my preferred specialist. Just worried about repercussions of any faults that he identifies that should be fixed under warranty.
Might be just noisy injector, or wrong code writen in ECU for that injector, it could even settle after a while...
But if the car is still under waranty maybe they could replace the noisy one...



Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianuxx View Post
I have in my 159 2.4 jtdm 200 cv values between 0.10 and 0.70, but when AC connected, these values change drasticaly, so whey rise at 1,12 an 1,00 in 3 injectors. Is that normal?
Yes that's normal.
When AC is on, total fuel quantity neded to maintain 850rpm is raising, so injection correction values are raising too.
losa is offline  
Status: Smitten with the Busso
AO Silver Member
 
Alfadisiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,286
Garage
digging up an old thread here but my 159 has a rough idle, the rev needle fluctuates at idle.
ive read the correction values thinking i may have a duff injector. but to me they dont seem too bad but im unsure what they should be, guessing within 0.4mm3???
i have serviced about 5k ago, all new filters, DPR EGR removed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg injection correction values.jpg (93.5 KB, 318 views)
Alfadisiac is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
sarkajiedietis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
County: -
Posts: 1
Probably I have worst situacion Problems appeared month ago. Engine started to stop with P0091 and P0092 faults. I was told what was problems in injectors (after new high pressure regulator and fuel filter changing). They said that they recalibrated all of them and even for to was changed some parts. After all this car maybe goes better on low revs but it takes 5.2-5.8 l/100km fuel while going on 90 km/h (used to be 4.3-4.8 even in low temperature conditions). In urban conditions it takes from 10 to 15 l/100km and this is without traffic jams.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg inj.jpg (117.4 KB, 127 views)
sarkajiedietis is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Romania
County: Bucuresti
Posts: 34

Member car:

Alfa Romeo 156

It has little to do with the values, to see if the correction is working well, the sum of all corrections must be 0 (for Bosch). I don't know how the single values should be though....
IRBaboon is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Northamptonshire
Posts: 36

Member car:

Alfa Romeo GT

Has anyone managed to resolve this issue? I think I'm in the same boat; poor starting with white smoke, lumpy idle and noisy despite recent oil change and hydraulic lifter additive put in with it. Absolutely no faults and I even changed the DMF as I thought it was that throwing the idling out.
Did check my injector values a while back and remember thinking they seemed a lot but that was before I knew the parameters and can't recall them exactly.

Was it a case of getting the injectors refurbed?

Cheers
Happax is offline  
Status: playing kill by numbers
AO Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Belgium
County: Down in the Park
Posts: 8,786
switch injector around (and code them appropriately) so you get a positive valu and a negative value for 1 and 4, and a positive and negative for 2 and 3.

that's a free way to reduce vibrations and noise but won't fix mechanical issues.

White smoke at startup + uneven running, check the glow plugs.
Cuore_Sportivo_155 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Northamptonshire
Posts: 36

Member car:

Alfa Romeo GT

Cheers for the advice, Glow plug system fully tested and ok, even checked the amp draw rate against new ones. Will go back to checking the values of the injectors and see which one is doing what.
Happax is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Glasgow
Posts: 4
I seem to be in the same boat and the Alfa Specialist just ran some tests on my 2008 Fiat Bravo 1.9 16v 150 mjet.

The values were (mm3/inject):

1. -0.62
2. +4.57
3. -2.31
4. -1.5

Anyone got any thoughts?
Fergie_ is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Glasgow
Posts: 4
.

Last edited by Fergie_; 11-07-17 at 19:52. Reason: Double post.
Fergie_ is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Engines (TS, JTS, JTD & V6)

Tags
16v , correction , injector , jtdm , knocking , noise , values

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My 147 boot hatch says it's open even with new switch? Software? Alf_the_Alfa Alfa 147, 156 & GT 2 26-03-11 23:15
Bleedin MAF CrispDust Alfa GTV & 916 Spider 28 01-06-10 19:47

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome