164 24V CamBelt Scraping - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 4 Old 25-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
County: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2

Member car:

BMW, Peugeot, VW

164 24V CamBelt Scraping

Hi All,

Greetings from the USA where the newest available Alfa's are from 1995!

I was looking at a 'purchasing a164LS (24V V6) and had a question which I thought you might be able to weigh in on.

The good news is that the car has all its ervice receipts from dealer back to new. The car recently had a new clutch, full suspension rebuild, and 60k service including belt. They replaced tensioners but it does not look like they did the water pump or idler bearings.

Anyway, the seller is basically a guy who buys and flips cars at a profit. In the meantime I got in touch with the prior owner who is not an Alfa techie but seems fairly mechanically adept. The prior owner told me that,
"after a few or some tens or hundreds of miles (it varies but it will probably take not very long) you will hear a scraping belt noise. It's the timing belt. You can remove a few bolts from the top of the timing cover to pry it back to see the belt riding toward the motor."
Based on the geometry of the setup I can not see how the belt could possibly touch the engine on the 24V? Is this even plausible? Could a failing idler pulley bearing cause this? Perhaps a faulty tensioner??

Would I be correct in presuming that even diagnosing the underlying problem will likely require removal of the T-belt?

Not sure at this point if I should walk away or renegotiate? Unless someone has a plausible explanation for what prior owner describes, it seems like too big a risk. Would you agree? When I asked the seller about this he did make the following statement, but it may be worthless as I am not sure you can really verify condition of any of these components without removing t-belt???
"He did mention that, but I never noticed anything. To confirm, my mechanic didnít find any issues whatsoever with the belt, pulleys, or tensioners. Also, as a followup, I contacted Algar and thatís when they let me know that everything was up to snuff on the car and they had recently completed a full service of the timing belt, tensioners, pulleys, etc. Frankly, with my mechanic and Algar signing off (service records), it was a moot point."

Thanks,

Mike
Amphicar770 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,971
Probably a faulty tensioner and the original 24v V6 tensioners are not available any more.
David C is online now  
(Post Link) post #3 of 4 Old 25-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
County: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2

Member car:

BMW, Peugeot, VW

One of the US Alfa Club tech advisors suggested the following. Any thoughts?

Tensioner cylinder on a 164 24v engine will not cause this "problem". Tensioner pulley bearing or pulley mount bushing possible but my money is on either aux drive pulley shaft bushings worn in rear head or one of the two idler pulley's bearing worn and a pulley leaning.

It is possible to have a loose idler pulley mounting bolt, too.
Amphicar770 is offline  
Status: Remembering why I dislike working on old cars....
AO Silver Member
 
ChrisS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 2,712

Member car:

Mercedes C350e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphicar770 View Post
One of the US Alfa Club tech advisors suggested the following. Any thoughts?

Tensioner cylinder on a 164 24v engine will not cause this "problem". Tensioner pulley bearing or pulley mount bushing possible but my money is on either aux drive pulley shaft bushings worn in rear head or one of the two idler pulley's bearing worn and a pulley leaning.

It is possible to have a loose idler pulley mounting bolt, too.
I was following your thread on this over on AlfaBB..

...anyhoo, I'll probably only repeat what's been said, but most likely causes are badly worn aux shaft bush in rear head, loose aux shaft pulley (this one is actually easy to do if the engine has been worked on - there are two holes in the pulley, but only one actually fits the locating dowel properly...get it wrong, and it can go on slightly skewed, then go loose in time). Loose or worn out idler pulleys. Another potential issue with the aux shaft, and again, probably only likely if it's been worked on, the shaft passes through from the fornt of the head, then through the skew gear that drives the oil pump, then there is a locking washer and big nut. If the nut came loose for example, it would allow the shaft to walk in & out a bit. This one is easy enough to look at, get access to the top of the rear hear, front corner, remove the cover where the oil condensate return pipe connects to, to reveal the top of the oil pump drive and the aux shaft gear - have a nose in there. Any problem should be obvious. Again, another possibility is the central idler between the banks, the bolt holding this in can be VERY hard to remove....and knowing what some mechanics are like, they may not bother and just leave it partly loose, or leave the old idler in there. If you get a bad one, you have to remove the casting that carries the idler in order to get good access for more ....aggressive removal techniques.

Bad idlers, bad tensioner bearing, won't be a loose cam pulley or it wouldn't run! I guess you could possibly get a wandering pulley on a 12V as it is keyed, but not on a 24V.

I'd agree that it's not likely to be a simple tensioner problem - this would be far more likely to lead to the belt jumping a tooth than riding across the pulleys.

I forget now if you bought the car or not...if you did, my first step would be to get in there, cam-lock it up, remove the belt, all idlers and tensioner, replace waterpump, carefully check the aux shaft for play (axial and latteral) and a properly fitted pulley, then reassemble, carefully checking the idlers and tensioner as you go, and finally, put a new belt on.

Good luck.
ChrisS is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Engines (TS, JTS, JTD & V6)

Tags
164 , 24v , cambelt , scraping

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine numbers [email protected] Tuning & Upgrades 1 22-01-11 13:30

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome