2.0 TS (i'm puzzled beyond) burning oil rebuilt engine - Alfa Romeo Forum
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2.0 TS (i'm puzzled beyond) burning oil rebuilt engine

Right then guys this is giving me some stick.

Symptoms : at low engine rev's burning clouds of smoke, at higher speed oil burning not evident. Oil consumption is massive

Things i've done : rebuilt the engine Twice both time replacing all the gaskets and the valve stem seals.

Things i've found : When the VIM and the injectors are remove you can see the inlet valves and on the ones that are closed there is a puddle of oil on each. I removed any and all connections between the VIM and the rocker breather system.
Smaky suggested that the exhaust studs might be leaking but i can't see this happening because of the puddles on the inlet valves...

I'm utterly lost
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For the oil to get to the inlet valves, it must be getting there from:

breather pipes
valve seals
variator feed (would usually only be apparent on #1 or #2 though)
inlet gasket
residual oil in the VIM (unlikely if it's using oil still)
(potentially, but unlikely) piston rings
urrrmmm......

If you run with the breathers disconnected (but plugged on the intake side), is there a difference?

What CF number is the engine?

Can you tell how far back oil deposits are being left? ie Manifold, runners, VIM, throttle body, air intake?
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VIM breathers disconnected
New Inlet gasket tried both types
New Valve seals twice
New rings

Oil is apparent on the injectors, i'm really stumped oil is in all 4 pots
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If the VIM breathers are disconnected (before and after throttle?) then it's got to be something head- or manifold-related. You'd think, anyway....

You're not fitting the valve seals too hard, are you? I did that the first time I change them, and buckled the outer ring of metal.

To be honest, I had a similar issue with a CF1 engine once, and it completely baffled me as well! I improved it, but sold the car before I completely cured it....
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Originally Posted by iainfm View Post
You're not fitting the valve seals too hard, are you? I did that the first time I change them, and buckled the outer ring of metal.
The seals were tight enough to hold the valves quit firm, i'm going to swap the head but the one i have spare needs some new valves first, and a really good clean up...
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I think i've read a thread about this previously. Is this the engine where you didn't hone the bores because you could still see the cross hatching?

When replacing rings on an engine with iron bores, honing is not something that can be left out - ever. This is the usual result as the rings do not bed in. I think with a TS the effect would be more pronounced than on most engines as the bores are not very round.
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Originally Posted by faster View Post
I think i've read a thread about this previously. Is this the engine where you didn't hone the bores because you could still see the cross hatching?

When replacing rings on an engine with iron bores, honing is not something that can be left out - ever. This is the usual result as the rings do not bed in. I think with a TS the effect would be more pronounced than on most engines as the bores are not very round.
I removed the pistons and honed the bores on the second rebuild...

This wouldnt account for oil pooling ontop of closed inlet valves (with a disconnected breather system) though.
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Faulty inlet manifold allowing variator oil into the inlets?
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UPDATE: still faulty, removed the VIM for the millionth time, check inlet gasket, checked oil way for variator swapped the gasket back for a metal one (tried both types twice now)...

THEORY: could over pressure in the rocker cover cause the oil to be forced passed the valve guide seals?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffa View Post
UPDATE: still faulty, removed the VIM for the millionth time, check inlet gasket, checked oil way for variator swapped the gasket back for a metal one (tried both types twice now)...

THEORY: could over pressure in the rocker cover cause the oil to be forced passed the valve guide seals?
I'd be inclined to think that if that were the case, it would probably blow past the rocker gasket first... I guess you could check by slackening the oil filler cap and see what happens...

How about...removing the rocker cover and inlet manifold, pouring oil (or maybe a thinner type than normal) over the inlet cams, and turning the engine over by hand to see if the oil is coming down the stems?
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The only way i can see oil pooling on the valves is past the seal, but they are new... What would cause oil to pass new seals?
Either the stems are worn or the seal have popped off?

I have a spare head i will get sorted this week and change next week, if this doesnt work i'm breaking the car...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffa View Post
The only way i can see oil pooling on the valves is past the seal, but they are new... What would cause oil to pass new seals?
Either the stems are worn or the seal have popped off?

I have a spare head i will get sorted this week and change next week, if this doesnt work i'm breaking the car...
What's the history of the head? Has it ever suffered a belt snap? If so, the guides may be cracked...
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What's the history of the head? Has it ever suffered a belt snap? If so, the guides may be cracked...
History is sketchy but it is possible as i bought the engine with BEF...
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Originally Posted by biffa View Post
History is sketchy but it is possible as i bought the engine with BEF...
That leads me to wonder whether this engine had a history of excessive oil consumption, and that's why the BE's failed in the first place...

Or...the white metal from the shells in the oil has abrasively worn the valve guides, or some other critical area.

Or...the big ends failed because of a previous belt-snap which has cracked the guides, as I speculated above.

It's such a similar story to the one I had that it's uncanny!
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THEORY: could over pressure in the rocker cover cause the oil to be forced passed the valve guide seals?
There are two outlets .. one directly to the inlet pipes just before the throttle body (which is why the throttle gets gummed up) and the outer to the intake manifold after the throttle and also has the oil separator valve in this ... so unlikely to build excessive pressure unless they are both blocked off.

What about the valve guides? Could these and/or the valve stems be worn so the oil is finding it's way down those to the valve heads?
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Originally Posted by gazza82 View Post
There are two outlets .. one directly to the inlet pipes just before the throttle body (which is why the throttle gets gummed up) and the outer to the intake manifold after the throttle and also has the oil separator valve in this ... so unlikely to build excessive pressure unless they are both blocked off.

What about the valve guides? Could these and/or the valve stems be worn so the oil is finding it's way down those to the valve heads?
The inlet manifold has been disconnected from any possable source of oil to eliminate as a fault. The final conclusion must be valve stems or guides.
This means the head needs to be removed for the 3rd time, but this time for a replacment unit...
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