Engine in or out ? - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 22 Old 27-02-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Engine in or out ?

Hi, I have just bought a 2001 156 2.0 litre selespeed for a few hundred quid thinking a new cambelt and c/h head would see it back on the road

It has stripped the teeth off the cambelt rather than snapping if that points you experts to an underlying cause.

After perusing this wonderful site I have been educated and now realise that it won't be making me any money but the GF loves the look of it and I would love to find out if these cars are worth the aggro as years of driving various POS's have me yearning for a vehicle that drives around corners properly!

So I have found a second hand CF3 engine for 350 that's allegedly done 78,000 [mine has 90,000 by one owner from new]

Now for your bit:

Are all CF3's the same regardless of gearbox type ? [ie will a manual gearbox engine fit a selespeed ?]

As I guess I would need to put a new belt on the secondhand engine anyway, would any of you seriously consider just doing the belt and not the tensioners, water pump and other belts ect ?

Finally if I plump for rebuilding the existing engine will it save me a lot of grief if I just pull the lump out and stick on the bench ? and if so would you split it ?

I should point out that I'm a keen and reasonably competent grease monkey and lifting out a little lump like the twin spark is well within my powers.

Unlike my powers to read up about Alfas before buying a broken one!

Ps, My Gf also wants me to point out that as I'm a trifle portly leaning over an engine bay is not good for my posture.

Last edited by Pile; 12-03-11 at 17:23.
Pile is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile View Post
Are all CF3's the same regardless of gearbox type ? [ie will a manual gearbox engine fit a selespeed ?]
Yes. They are 32310 in 156/147.

Quote:
As I guess I would need to put a new belt on the secondhand engine anyway, would any of you seriously consider just doing the belt and not the tensioners, water pump and other belts ect ?
All three belts and all tensioners.


FYI, re the stripped teeth on the old belt, that is just due to the age of the belt. Probably more common than actually snapping.
David C is offline  
Status: Helpingly Hopeful
AO Member
 
alfamender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 166

Member car:

Rover 420 i.s

Just use all the necessary bits from your old engine that may be different to the new one.

As DavidC said change all belts and waterpump before fitting (way easier) and dont forget to buy a clutch (unless you didnt know selespeeds have a normal manual clutch)

Not sure if the selespeed unit will need calibrating for new clutch as i don't know enough about them.
Someone else will know
alfamender is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 22 Old 27-02-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Thanks for your input, Does the variator show signs of wear that can be spotted in anyway or is it another " replace it now just in case" job ?
Pile is offline  
Status: 145 20vt finished and lovin it
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 343
Hi if putting s/hand engine you need to do both belts/pulleys etc, variator, water pump and i would do new clutch.
Or new big ends, both belts/pulleys, variator, water pump and gasket set.
I've got fiatecuscan and in west sussex
Good luck
alfasudchris is offline  
Status: SOLD my 156!
AO Gold Member
 
gazza82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom
County: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 9,120
... and clutch slave cylinder unless it looks new.

If you do take it out and put it on a bench, have a good look at the piston rings. Mine had signs of tiny cracks and a very light scratch on one cylinder bore. new rings and the bores honed means oil consumption is negligible.

Last edited by gazza82; 28-02-11 at 12:29.
gazza82 is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 22 Old 28-02-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Ok, thanks for your input so far, very helpful. I have made a decision and will be getting a s/h engine. I think I'm going to wait until I'm drunk to calculate the cost of the parts required to put it back on the road with a reasonable amount of confidence in it.
Pile is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza82 View Post
... and clutch slave cylinder unless it looks new.
It is a Selespeed, so no slave cylinder, but add the release bearing.
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 22 Old 12-03-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Update, I have been lucky enough to get an engine from my mates scrapyard that has the cambelt change sticker on it. It says 18 months and about 22,00 miles are left in the belt. So I am going to replace the engine and use the best clutch out of the two. Much as I would love to do a complete job, we are moving house in 3 weeks and She needs to be back on the road before then.

I have been thinking of removing the balance belt and possibly leaving the ac pump off [because the pipe from the pump has been broken off] is it possible to just leave the pump off and use the shorter belt from a non ac car ?

What are your thoughts about removing the balance belt ?

Finally I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who has helped me already through these forums, cheers!
Pile is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,976
Re the aux belt, yes you can leave off the compressor and use the shorter non-ac aux belt.
I'm not 100% sure if the tensioner arrangement needs altering for the shorter belt, it may just be that one of the idlers isn't used with the shorter belt, but check that first.
You need to make sure you get the right belt because there were different belts with different numbers of grooves and pulleys to match.

Re the balance belt, personally I'd keep it. The 2.0TS is a very smooth engine for a 4-cyl and you will loose that if you take the the balance belt off.

David C

Audi TT 3.2v6 DSG
2012 Renault Twingo 1.2
xAlfa 156 Selespeed sp3 + Brembo conversion
Fiat Cinquecento 899cc
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 22 Old 12-03-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Blimey, those Italians don't want their engines to fall out do they. I have never seen so many brackets and mountings on an engine. Bloody thing is still stuck in the car as a nut on the rear gearbox mount is rounded off. In fact the whole engine is a bit of a ******* to work on in the car ain't it. soooo many wires and clips in odd places.
So many hard to reach nuts and bolts. It better be a bloody good drive after all this!
Thanks for the advice David.
Pile is offline  
Status: Helpingly Hopeful
AO Member
 
alfamender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 166

Member car:

Rover 420 i.s

Is that the large nut (19mm). If so take out the two 13mm bolts that fasten the mounting to the subframe
alfamender is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 22 Old 13-03-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

No, it's an 18mm [for God's sake!] nut on a stud from the g/box. The bracket is removed from the sub frame but sticks out rearwards and the selespeed gear on the g/box prevents the whole lot rising out at the angle that we can achieve. If we had some strops instead of just the crane hook it would have come out at an extreme angle. It's not a problem, a new 18 mm walldrive spanner today will have it off in no time.

I shall probably change the cambelt anyway, is it really impossible without cam locks? I have never had to use cam locks before even on twin cam engines.
Pile is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile View Post
I shall probably change the cambelt anyway, is it really impossible without cam locks? I have never had to use cam locks before even on twin cam engines.
On the 16v TS/JTS it is impossible to do properly without the camlocks.
There are no timing marks.
The cam pulleys need to be slackened to allow the belt to tension.

and never assume that the timing is correct before you start work
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 22 Old 13-03-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Thanks mate, will start from scratch.
Lump and box are out now and on the bench. Stripping down/building up over the next week. back in next weekend! [omg! i hope i remember where all those bloody wires go :-) ]
Pile is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 22 Old 26-03-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Update, well things went well during the rebuild except the clutch thrust bearing is us and a new one from alfa is nearly 100 quid ffs! So it's not going back in yet but hopefully this week after work one night, the sound of a resurrected T spark will be heard on the sunny Sussex coast! All those bloody wires were a piece of the proverbial in the end, that at least they got right when they designed this lump. Shame they couldn't get the mountings for the ancillaries right, 5 bolts to hold the ac pump bracket on and 2 of them impossible to get to !!
Still smiling though
Pile is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 22 Old 02-05-11 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Hahahahahaha! Now I know why you all love em! She has been working for a while now but today was the first proper drive due to moving house and stuff. Went down to Goodwood to watch the Jag owners have a blast, which was awesome [and free] in it's self, but the drive there was sublime. I have never had so much fun with two extra wheels before, awesome! thanks to all who helped make it possible. BRILLIANT!
Pile is offline  
Damien_C
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Great to hear you enjoyed it
 
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
Ralf S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The land that Time forgot
Posts: 13,128
Aye! A good '56 is a pretty good wheels... especially when you put your own blood (literally!), sweat and knuckles skin into it..

Good job Pile.


Ralf S.
Ralf S. is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 22 Old 17-04-12 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

Update! Hi again, thought I would add that after nearly a year of driving the car I'm still grinning But I wanted to say for the benefit of other newbies who might read this that if I ever take the engine out again It's coming out through the bottom. It means splitting the exhaust but the aggro we had getting it out through the top and getting it back in again still gives me nightmares

Problems since rebuild include; exhaust manifold gasket blowing slightly when cold [cheapskate used old gasket!]
Knocking from front arb bushes, occasional engine warning light coming on and running a bit rough. Rear windows don't open, just click! Apart from those paltry problems it's been a wonderful first year of Alfa ownership!
Pile is offline  
Status: faclifting a 156
AO Silver Member
 
biffa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Lancashire
Posts: 3,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile View Post
Update! Hi again, thought I would add that after nearly a year of driving the car I'm still grinning But I wanted to say for the benefit of other newbies who might read this that if I ever take the engine out again It's coming out through the bottom. It means splitting the exhaust but the aggro we had getting it out through the top and getting it back in again still gives me nightmares

Problems since rebuild include; exhaust manifold gasket blowing slightly when cold [cheapskate used old gasket!]
Knocking from front arb bushes, occasional engine warning light coming on and running a bit rough. Rear windows don't open, just click! Apart from those paltry problems it's been a wonderful first year of Alfa ownership!
Exhaust blowing will be a crack near the Front CAT's due the the bracket snapping (the one that snaps due you speed-bump contact).
biffa is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 22 Old 20-04-12 Thread Starter
Status: next job: arb bushes
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 32

Member car:

159 Sportwagon

That's interesting, I was finding it hard to find the leak because it only lasts for a while. I had thought it was the manifold because it seems to blow only when 1 cylinder fires, tick tick tick sort of thing. I shall investigate further!
Pile is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Engines (TS, JTS, JTD & V6)

Tags
engine

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OBD II Codes Smaky Alfa 145 & 146 62 14-08-19 13:36
16 important OIL questions and answers oilman Alfa 147, 156 & GT 339 03-06-18 10:39
JTD/JTDM MCSF & other problems FIX losa Alfa 147, 156 & GT 154 26-09-16 20:05
$5500 fix ... still blowing white smoke!!!! pyramimi Alfa 147, 156 & GT 2 16-10-10 18:55
2.4 jtd flatspot bruce Alfa 147, 156 & GT 31 11-05-08 09:08

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome