Knowing if enough AntiFreeze - put in freezer! - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 27 Old 05-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Knowing if enough AntiFreeze - put in freezer!

I was unsure if I have enough antifreeze in my coolant system, so I took some out put it in bottle and stuck it in my freezer!!!

It froze! Think I better drain some out and refill it with antifreeze.....

.....is this test valid!!!!??
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
What temperature was your freezer set to? Normally there is a dial that will say 1 2 3 4 5 or something and your freezer handbook should clarify. Some freezers go down to -25 or so.

Most garages have a device that can tell you the strength of your anti-freeze, so I would get it checked out properly, and if it isn't right then a full empty and re-fill with the correct stuff at the correct mixture.
Pud237 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,972
and what does your chosen coolant go down to?

(mine goes down to -42degC, but most don't)
David C is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Alfafamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Warwickshire
Posts: 5,758
To freeze in a domestic freezer the coolant is probably to weak to be protecting the internals from corrosion etc. Its often forgotten that coolant is much more than just anti freeze. Too little "anti freeze" in the mix can cause hot spots in the engine that cause cylinder head failures and even piston siezures on wet liner engines.
Alfafamily is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 27 Old 05-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Will take it to the garage tomorrow and get is flushed out, and refilled. Simple enough for them to do and what do you think on the cost of draining, flushing and refilling coolant is?
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bristol
Posts: 5,002
Depends on the labout rate - somewhere from 50 to 100 I'd guess.
mave is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 27 Old 06-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Decided I was being lazy so did it myself. Syphoned out coolant from top up tank. Refilled with neat approx 2litres of antifreeze.

The temp normally regulates itself quite well to 95C max then back down. But the temp seems to be going to about 105C before coming back down now. (has done this since cold snap).

One thing I have noticed, half my radiator in the front is warm, the other half cold. Is this correct?

Or have I got an ice block halfway?!
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Alfafamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Warwickshire
Posts: 5,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybrain1234 View Post
Decided I was being lazy so did it myself. Syphoned out coolant from top up tank. Refilled with neat approx 2litres of antifreeze.

The temp normally regulates itself quite well to 95C max then back down. But the temp seems to be going to about 105C before coming back down now. (has done this since cold snap).

One thing I have noticed, half my radiator in the front is warm, the other half cold. Is this correct?

Or have I got an ice block halfway?!
I doubt you have any ice blocks anywhere. Which radiator are you touching?
Alfafamily is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 27 Old 06-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Double Six View Post
I doubt you have any ice blocks anywhere. Which radiator are you touching?
The first one in the front of the car. Left hand side is warm when engine is up to temp, but right side is cold.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 27 Old 06-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Just put another 2 litres into tank. I believe the GTV v6 coolant circuit is about 12 litres, so my 4 litres is about 33% mix coolant to water. I will continue to top up with neat coolant for a while getting me closer to 50/50 (Had to syphon out some of the already mixed up coolant but hey, its going to be -7C tonight.

Better safe than sorry for sure.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Do a few miles to get the coolant properly mixed, and try the freezer test again
Pud237 is offline  
Status: Injected with a poison
AO Member
 
satanism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denmark
County: Fyn
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybrain1234 View Post
Decided I was being lazy so did it myself. Syphoned out coolant from top up tank. Refilled with neat approx 2litres of antifreeze.

The temp normally regulates itself quite well to 95C max then back down. But the temp seems to be going to about 105C before coming back down now. (has done this since cold snap).

One thing I have noticed, half my radiator in the front is warm, the other half cold. Is this correct?

Or have I got an ice block halfway?!
you probably have air in the system
satanism is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 27 Old 06-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
Do a few miles to get the coolant properly mixed, and try the freezer test again
Good Idea. Will do this tomorrow. Will be interesting.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,972
It would have been a far better idea to drain the system then fill it with with new coolant.
Mixed BEFORE putting it in the engine.
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 27 Old 11-12-10 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
It would have been a far better idea to drain the system then fill it with with new coolant.
Mixed BEFORE putting it in the engine.
Fully agree, but I was concerned about amount of coolant and i didnt want to take pipes off etc. Lazy i know. Will drain properley and refill in summer.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Sniffing badgers
AO Member
 
GLPoomobile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Edinburgh
Posts: 761
Stating the obvious here (although David C has already done it) but you shouldn't just guess at the AF mix by partially draining the system and adding more AF.

If you don't know what the true ratio was to begin with, how do you know what the ratio is now?

Is the AF you've topped up with even the same type as what was in there?

I can totally understand the laziness at this time of year (with no garage to work in I've no motivation to get my hands dirty in such cold weather), but it's at this time of year that you should be taking this VERY seriously. I've heard of quite a few cases of people with frozen coolant in the last few weeks. Some have had lucky escapes, some haven't (broken water pump etc).

As said, you may have an air lock, but my money is on the coolant now having too rich an AF mixture and it's no longer acting as an effective coolant, hence the slight increase in running temp.
GLPoomobile is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 27 Old 07-01-11 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLPoomobile View Post
Stating the obvious here (although David C has already done it) but you shouldn't just guess at the AF mix by partially draining the system and adding more AF.

If you don't know what the true ratio was to begin with, how do you know what the ratio is now?

Is the AF you've topped up with even the same type as what was in there?

I can totally understand the laziness at this time of year (with no garage to work in I've no motivation to get my hands dirty in such cold weather), but it's at this time of year that you should be taking this VERY seriously. I've heard of quite a few cases of people with frozen coolant in the last few weeks. Some have had lucky escapes, some haven't (broken water pump etc).

As said, you may have an air lock, but my money is on the coolant now having too rich an AF mixture and it's no longer acting as an effective coolant, hence the slight increase in running temp.
Thanks for info, and while I totally agree with you my guestimations although a little crude have since been checked by a garage for the correct coolant mix, and it was 45% coolant, which is fine according to the container, and yes it wasthe same type of coolant.

The higher temp in traffic is a result of the low speed fan not kicking in and only the high speed turns on. Its actauuly going to the Alfa garage this morning to have the resistor pack changed as this is the cause they believe.

Like I said your comments are fully justfied, and hopefully the fan two speed is cured today and all is back to normal.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybrain1234 View Post
Its actauuly going to the Alfa garage this morning to have the resistor pack changed as this is the cause they believe.
How much did they quote you? I can supply a like-new resistor for 20, fitting is only two phillips head screws..
Pud237 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Pujazuba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 623
Do not mix coolants as they don't mix well regardless of whether you put in the same color or not!
Best to just drain the system and replace with the right mixture. And note down what you used in case you need to add some in the future so you can add the same one.
Pujazuba is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 27 Old 08-01-11 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
How much did they quote you? I can supply a like-new resistor for 20, fitting is only two phillips head screws..
Wish I read this before. Cost me 90 yesterday. But it does seem to have solved the problem. Low speed fan now cuts in as it should. Will drive it today and double check.

I hate finding out I could have saved 70!

43 part
10 new cap for coolant bottle
20 labour
VAT
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybrain1234 View Post
Wish I read this before. Cost me 90 yesterday. But it does seem to have solved the problem. Low speed fan now cuts in as it should. Will drive it today and double check.

I hate finding out I could have saved 70!

43 part
10 new cap for coolant bottle
20 labour
VAT
Ouch.. Never mind mate, you live and learn. If you ever need any parts just drop me an email [email protected]
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 27 Old 09-01-11 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
Ouch.. Never mind mate, you live and learn. If you ever need any parts just drop me an email [email protected]
Cheers Dan. Will certainly keep this in mind for sure.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Those resistors are a bad design though, the copper corrodes and so do the blobs of solder that holds the resistors on, they usually only last a few years. On my old 156 3 litre which uses the same rad fan set up as the GTV (with twin fans), I removed the resistors and the low speed function from the circuit altogether.

Attachment 107158

In the picture I cut the connectors off the wires labelled A, B, C & D, and I joined together A&B and C&D, bypassing the resistors. This meant that the rad fans came on at full blast as soon as they got to the usual low speed activation temperature, which is around 97 degrees. Because I was running a 3 litre engine with a 2.5 V6 cooling system, it was helpful to have the extra cooling rather than waiting until the engine was already over 100 degrees before getting the higher powered fans coming in.

Oh, and please forgive the awful carpet, its better than lying on concrete (just)

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

Wizard Exhaust systems available here

Tel: 01768 879 171

Last edited by Pud237; 10-08-16 at 15:28.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #24 of 27 Old 10-01-11 Thread Starter
Status: needs to put a summer pic of his car..
AO Member
 
monkeybrain1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 646
Pud237 - I can see the logic thats for sur, but when it comes down to it I get a lttle scared when altering things that the manufacturers put in. Probably more down to the fact (in my case) little knowledge is dangerous knowledge. So I always stick to the original parts etc.

But like I said it makes sense.

P.s. Thanks to everyone for there help, Since the resistor was changed on Friday the car is heating and cooling as it normally does, 90c and low speed fan kicks in, down to about 87c then off. Lucky that the high speed fan was still working and with the cold temps it was cooling the car well. The same problem in Summer could have resulted in a bigger problem.

Thanks again.
monkeybrain1234 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybrain1234 View Post
Pud237 - I can see the logic thats for sur, but when it comes down to it I get a lttle scared when altering things that the manufacturers put in. Probably more down to the fact (in my case) little knowledge is dangerous knowledge. So I always stick to the original parts etc.
Maybe I was a bit hasty - its not that there's anything wrong with them, just their positioning in the radiator means they don't have much protection from the elements, and because they are made of copper they corrode. They always last a good few years though before they need doing again. Its why I have so many nearly new ones, because they do need replacing quite often.
Pud237 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Engines (TS, JTS, JTD & V6)

Tags
antifreeze , freezer , knowing , put

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome