is this possible? V6 cam idlers - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 11 Old 09-10-10 Thread Starter
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is this possible? V6 cam idlers

Is it possible to change the Cam belt idlers without locking the cams etc?

I fear my idlers may not of been replaced when the belt was last done.

I have rattle which sounds like a worn bearing which I thought was related to the aux belt but have replaced that along with all idlers and a new tensioner but the rattle remains.

No way i can afford to have a mechanic look at it so I am hoping its a simple job where the tension can be released without affecting the belt position, old idlers out and new ones in?

..... i doubt it though!
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I doubt it too... For starters, to get the tension set correctly, you need to slacken the cam pulleys - which are a taper-fit on the V6...

Where about are you - you might be close to someone who could do it for a few beer tokens!
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I'll chip in...I don't fully agree with the notion that you can't put tension in the belt without loosening the camwheels. Locking the cams in place and loosening the pulleys means you can get the timing absolutely right. The moment you remove the locks, you'll end up with small changes in belt tension between cams and between cams & crank due to valve springs acting on cam lobes, which is perfectly normal.

What I would certainly agree with though - changing that idler without doing the whole procedure is most likely a non-starter from mostly practical perspectives. You'd need to lock the tensioner to it's slackest position, very carefully pull a bit of slack in the belt by the idler, very carefully remove the idler, while maintaining the belt in position and not allowing the cams to jump, fit new idler, move slack back where it belongs, then re-set the tensioner.

Sounds simple enough, but one slip and you are committed to doing it the long way round, plus, this way, you'd be re-using belt and tensioner. Neither really desirable given the consequences of losing timing.

Sorry
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Thanks for the replies.

Im going to take the covers off and seewhats in there. The belt was done less than 3k ago but reciept does not state of idlers were done.

Fingers crossed that its something else causing the noise!
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Take it back to the place that did the cambelt and tell them there is a noise from the cambelt area and you want it sorted as they did the belt and have obviously done something wrong.

The Rollers are metal on the V6 but considering the amount of work that goes into a V6 belt change they should have changed them.
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Well, if it was only 3k mile ago...you could take a chance on the method I described...but you'd need some reliable way to hold the belt on the cam and crank pulleys. There is a view you shouldn't re-tension a belt once it's been run, but given the tensioner is dynamic, I don't see why that would be an issue here. A static tensioner, maybe.

The other question of course....was the water pump swapped when the belt was done? If the idler wasn't, then a good chance they short-changed it on the pump as well, and probably the tensioner as well just for good measure.

TBH, given just how catastrophic a belt failure is on these engines, and unless you can be confident a proper job was done....I'd be tempted to bite the bullet and do the job right. Seems expensive, but it sure beats having to rebuild the top of the engine or scrap the car.

As you say, get in there and have a careful look round. Could be the bearing was replaced but has worked loose, ditto for the tensioner?? Belt hitting covers perhaps?? Someone on here posted a good one - the crank cambelt pulley had worked loose and worn a massive keyway slot and it was flapping all over the shop. Loose crank pulley even?????

Fingers crossed it's simple and easily sorted.

Tell us what you find anyway.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by symon View Post
Take it back to the place that did the cambelt and tell them there is a noise from the cambelt area and you want it sorted as they did the belt and have obviously done something wrong.

The Rollers are metal on the V6 but considering the amount of work that goes into a V6 belt change they should have changed them.
Now that's a good idea!! My head is all into the DIY aspect, but of course, you have a receipt for work done.

I rarely pay people to do things for me, so never think of the obvious! Duh.
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Did not get a proper chance to get in there today.

but a bit more history....

The noise has been there since i purchased the car about 5 months ago.

Initially i thought it was the water pump bearing however given the number of idlers, tensioners etc in the area was not 100% certain.

Had the cam belt/ water pump and tensioners done but the noise is still there, the mechanic gave me and advisory to do the aux belt and tensioners.

I had a little mooch about under there when I got the car back and the big idler on the aux belt felt wobbly so I figured that must be the culprit.

After changing the aux parts the noise remains.

The pump has been changed, I can see the shiny new part. It still sounds like its coming from the water pump area aothough I know the cambelt idlers are just above.

Covers will come off tomorrow and i am thinking it should be pretty easy to spot if the idlers are new or old.

Going back to the mechanic is not really an option yet due to distance and time but I will make contact if the parts have not been changed as this was part of the agreed work
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Is there any way you can remove the auxillary belt and run it for a short time to see if the noise is still there?

If it goes then you know it is on the auxillary belt circuit.

Obviously don't run it for more than a few seconds as the water pump runs of the aux belt as well.
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Top idea symon!

I shall return with an update!
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Recently I have replaced a cracked tappet in a V6 which was making a similar noise to that which you describe, it was only spoted because I was replacing the cam after seeing wear to another lobe on it, really silenced the engine up though.
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