I Changed Cam Belt, now won't start - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 12-09-10 Thread Starter
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I Changed Cam Belt, now won't start

Hi guy,

I'm new to the forum, but in a bit of a pickle. Apologies if I've posted in the wrong place but I'm in need of help.

I've just changed my cam belt on my 147 1.9 JTD, all went relatively smoothly although I've never done it before so had to refer to the forum a few time for help.

Anyway now the car won't start, it turns over with the starter motor, but won't start. Every once in a while it'll fire, but then it just dies instantly. I don't know what I've done wrong or maybe broken whilst I was doing it.

I did the water pump as well so had to loosen the cam pulley.

So I'm thinking cam sensor, but what are the symtoms of that failing?

Also worried about the EMU, it's right next to the Cam pulley, and although I didn;t do anything to it I leant on the wires a couple of times.

I've also got some kind of buzzing sound coming from behind the heater knobs inside the car when the ignition it on, I can't recall that before and it can't be related surely!!!!

Any suggestions

Thanks

Craig
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did you double check you had the marks on the belt on the marks on the pulleys? sounds like you might be out a tooth somewhere (cam or crank)
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(Post Link) post #3 of 13 Old 13-09-10 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
did you double check you had the marks on the belt on the marks on the pulleys? sounds like you might be out a tooth somewhere (cam or crank)
Hi Cuore,

I triple checked the belt marks with those on the pulleys.



I was thinking this through whilst trying to sleep last night and a few things came to mind regarding the cam pulley.

As I say I had to loosen it to get the water pump out, two things are worrying me;

In loosening the bolt the cam pulley got rotated say 40 degrees (20 in each direction) could I have damaged a valve, are the that delicate. I was thinking of doing a compression test.

Also when I got the bolt loose the cam pulley was moved forward, is the pulley keyed (eg is there only one angle to fit it) into the cam shaft or could I have retightened it at the wrong angle? This one scares me as I've since turned the engine over on the starter. Everything sounded fine though, no banging/knocking.
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Did you take the battery off?? If you did leave the car over night. The JTD doesn't like having its battery taken off. Mine does this everytime I take the battery off. Over and over. Lock it up and leave it for the night. Come back in the morning and it starts everytime. Bloomin thing! Could be the same problem for you. You may have bent a valve though when the pulley got spun. It would probably fire up though and run on three if you had.
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Do you have to time up the injector pump on Alfa Diesel engines? I remember on my old Fiesta you had to, I don't know if Alfa's are the same sort of system?
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no, common rail diesel pumps are not timed...
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(Post Link) post #7 of 13 Old 13-09-10 Thread Starter
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Update,

I've been out and rotated the crank by hand this evening and everthing rotates around nice and smoothly, feeling compression resistance for each cylinder. One thing of note is a very slight scraping noise (I can't feel it) at around 7-9pm when looking at the white mark on the crank pulley. Could this indicate a bent valve? And surely it would still start if the rest of the valves were OK.

A side issue I was very low on diesel yesterday and I don;t think I di but I could have ran out, and being jacked up won't have helped. Clutching at straws but do I need to prime the fuel pump if I'd ran out? to get the air out.

Time for the professionals me thinks. Anyone know a good mobile mechanic in Lichfield, north of birmingham.
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If the pump inside the tank runs when you switch on the contact, the fuel system will prime itself. Make sure you hear the pump running for a second or 2.... When you try to start the engine, the pump should run aswell...

If it doesn't, the engine probably doesn't register any rpm... You also need at least 250 rpm before the fuel system starts injecting...

Besides the RPM/TDC sensor there's also a camshaft sensor, the first one measures the crank position, the other the camshaft position. These signals need to be in sync, or the car won't start... This won't take much, half a tooth out can be enough.

Bent valves are the easiest to spot with the cam cover off, the 8v and 10v JTD use solid cam followers, it'll be very easy to see if one of them doesn't return fully...
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Right I'll try removing and refitting the belt and doubly make sure the marks line up.

Thanks for your help Cuore, could you explain more about what I should look for with the cam cover off?
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have you changed the Waterpump?
If so check the Camshaftsensor it's a verry tiny piece and easily bent a little causing no or nearly no signal - if your ECU does not see anything rotate the engine won't fire up.

Had exactly this behavior on my JTD after cambelt change (with Waterpump) and it caused me a headache till i found the problem... the space of the sensor was too wide so i bent the two "ends" (gentle) a little together alsow checked the camgearwheel - this was alos a little bent.... put the stuff together and everything runs fine

cya
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(Post Link) post #11 of 13 Old 14-09-10 Thread Starter
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Update,

I've removed and refitted the cam belt, and the marks are definitely in the right place..... still no joy.

Tried a diagnostic tool I borrowed from a friend at work, this doesn't come up with any codes. I'm not actually sure it works with my car to be honest.

I unplugged the cam sensor cable and got the engine light on and 0 mile to service message. BLACK-SHEEP did you get a engine warning light/message when you cam sensor was bent? I did change the water pump so this could be an option. You say too wide? does the sensor work on both side of the cam pulley like a sideways 'U'. Is there anyway I can check the sensor? Luckily I can get the belt on and off in 5 minutes flat now so it's not too much pain to get to the sensor if I need to take the CAM pulley off.
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Well i got no warnling light on the Dash but in FES (FiatECUScan) there was an Error storred in the ECU something like "Fatal Camshaftsensor signal...." (don't remember what it realy said but it had something with the camshaftsensor and signal in it)

I don't know how it works but i guess it's simmlar to the ABS Sensors if you look at the backside of the camgear there is somekind of "mark" in it (a gap) which will run thrue the U of the Sensor and trigger "1 Turn of the Cam" < at least that's the way i think it works.

On my car the Sensor looked a little like this: \_/ so i made it U again
alsow the backside of my camgear was a little bent too, not completely round the "rail" with the gap ( don't know how to call it) this happened because i used the wrong tools to fix the camgear to unscrew the nut securing it.... lucky me: i was able to bent this to the correct shape now the sensor and the camgear run with a verry narrow distance (as the ABS sensors do on the ABS ring).

Packed everything back together and the thing started.
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(Post Link) post #13 of 13 Old 15-09-10 Thread Starter
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BLACKSHEEP - You are a genius my friend....

That was it I'd damaged the campulley 'rail' as you call it . it was all bent up. And the cam sensor is basically broken in two. New one needed there, but hey that's a relief I was about to call in the pros. I've straightened out the rail, although it'll probably need a little more work.

Right where's the cheapest place to get a good cam sensor from......

Thanks, Blacksleep......
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