2.0TS cambelt change - timing help!!?? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 26 Old 15-03-10 Thread Starter
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Help 2.0TS cambelt change - timing help!!??

Evening all,

where to start...

Well I thought I would be a smart *** and do my own cambelt,balance belt,variator,water pump,tensioners change!

Well all was going well, or so i thought, until I attempted the variator change (thought this was a simple unscrew??) as we (me and dad) attempted to unscrew it I noticed that the cam locks were rising...cam bearing bolts obviously not long enough and stripping the thread...great!!!
Inlet cam had moved so moved it back to position and put the cam lock back on in position but obviously I couldn't lock the cam shaft now. So opted to leave the variator as it was proving a problem and 'seems' fine at the moment.

Anyway changed all parts bar variator, timing belt back on etc, fire her up, dad is like "its out a tooth I reckon"

Haven't looked at it since as it was gettin dark, however going to attempt the correction tomorrow Tuesday 16th and was hoping for some feedback from you wise owls!?

I have read that the timing can be set according to pulleys lining up with the belts or something....can anyone explain so I can check the timing tomorrow please?

thank you in advance!

wish me luck!
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To unscrew the variator you need to remove the cam from the head, and hold it between 2 bits of wood in a vice.

I am not suprised it has stripped the threads as the variator will be on very tight.

I would take off the belt, loosen both the cam pulleys so that they can move, refit the locks as best you can then start again.

You cannot accurately set the timing by lining the pulleys up with the belts because they are meant to move relative to the cams when you tension the belt.
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Stop do not start the car if you have stripped the threads in the head it is fairly easy to repair,get yourself the correct helicoil kit and replace the two threads, As symon says! pardon the punn!! take the camshaft out and put it in a vice with wood to protect the cam lobes, the variator will be very tight, do you have the correct removal tool for this. Totally alfa do all the tools and that includes slightly longer bolts for the cam locks. i think they are over your area (wellington in Somerset), check their website www.totallyalfa.co.uk. Once you have done your threads/ variator and then put your camshaft back in the correct position and everything is bolted back down with your cam locks in place make sure the bottom end is lined up with the mark ( at this point i get someone to stand on the brake pedal to hold that one in place whilst you slip the belt back on and do your adjustments. There are lots of threads about changing the cambelt have a look at them and take your time. Good luck
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Much better to use a TDC gauge, or even a long screwdriver down the bore to find TDC...
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Totally agree with you there i always use mine but the last one i did as i was slipping the belt on the bottom end moved so i got the wife to sit in the car with the brake on and that seemed to solve that problem. I put a post on here earlier concerning the bottom end i am just changing my shells and was wondering do you use new stretch bolts when re fitting the bottom end shells.
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According to autodata (last time I looked - will check again in a moment) the bolts don't need to be renewed. I prefer to put a dab of the blue threadlock on the bolts, as I saw a pair once that had undone themselves. They probably weren't torqued correctly during a previous engine repair, but it gave me the willies!
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Just checked:

Renew bolts: No
Stage 1: 25Nm
Stage 2: +60deg

PS I usually find that starting the cam belt at the crank, and working anti-clockwise works fine. Set the 2 cam pulleys so they're slack and fully clockwise so they take up the slack when you tension it.
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(Post Link) post #8 of 26 Old 15-03-10 Thread Starter
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top guys!
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Its good practice to change them, their stretch bolts. Just like you wouldn't re-use head bolts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hgtbill View Post
Its good practice to change them, their stretch bolts. Just like you wouldn't re-use head bolts.
You can re-use them 'a few' times, but I don't want to start that argument again...
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Oh why not !
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I am not risking it i have ordered new ones today and i will still us the blue threadlock too i don't want to have the sump off again! thanks for your help chaps.

Straying back on to the original subject did you manage to get you problems sorted today richlou156
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During my rebuild i had a cam cap bolt snap but i put that down to yet more bad luck, i still reused the rest of them. I have to be honest if i did ever remove the cam shaft or a cap for a belt change on that engine again i would replace all the bolts because i know that they have been reused already.
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(Post Link) post #14 of 26 Old 17-03-10 Thread Starter
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Its work in progress at the moment guys, gotta work the rest of the week unfortunately but i'll let you guys no how I get on damn bad luck hahaha
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the variator will be locktighted on, i did mine in a vice with a towel round it, definatly re tap the threads
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You may find there is enough thread to hold the cam bearing caps when you bolt them back on.

Thats because when you use the camlocks they are a lot taller and only the top 1 or 2 turns of thread will be holding the lock if you use the standard bolts.

If those get damaged the ones below will still be ok. The load on them is also shared with the other caps and is not that great.

IIRC the thread size is M7x1.0 and that is not the easiest size to get an insert for.
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(Post Link) post #17 of 26 Old 19-03-10 Thread Starter
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thanks symon,

won't I need a size bigger tho?
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If you fit an insert the thread will be the same size as before.

The best thing to do is to try and refit the cam bearing cap and see if the bolt tightens up.

If it does then it will be fine.
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I've tightened the bolt but no joy as it gets tight then loose as if the thread is cross threaded.....its all a bit of a mess not happy!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlou156 View Post
I've tightened the bolt but no joy as it gets tight then loose as if the thread is cross threaded.....its all a bit of a mess not happy!
In that case you need to fit an insert.

It may also be possible to enlarge it to M8, but I wouldn't like to say if it was possible for definite. It will depend on how close the hole is to other things in the head.


There was an article in Car mechanics mag a few months back about a TS cambelt change, and they held the cam with the locks whilst unscrewing the variator. So I wrote in to them telling them it will damage the threads and they printed my letter.
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The Royal Enfield I had 40 years ago had a similar problem with the rocker caps and chain-case so I bought the necessary helicoil kits and did them myself. A helicoil kit will solve your problem and very easy to do, just clean everything up nicely afterwards.

This isn't the size but it gives you an idea. I've used Just off Base before so can recommend them. You may be able to get the kit cheaper though.

http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/M8-X-1-...raper-DHCK-MET
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(Post Link) post #22 of 26 Old 20-03-10 Thread Starter
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i think I've sorted the bearing cap problem so thanks for all your input!

just need to get that ********* variator off, its in the vice but bloody hell can I get it off!!

any ideas, or shall i call in my body builder mate haha?
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Have a look here, there is a tool that the guy has made up for undoing it.

The cam variator

I made something similar and with a bit of effort it will work.
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i have the actual tool from an alfa tool company but jeezus its tight!!!
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Add a scaffold pole for extra torque!

I've not found one yet that I've been unable to undo, but the last one I did made a bit of a mess of my removal tool (ebspares variety).

I use the old timing belt as a vice-guard, btw.
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