My 2.0 TS rebuild - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 47 Old 13-12-09 Thread Starter
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My 2.0 TS rebuild

After posting up the noise my engine was making (https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engin...ing-noise.html), I have decided to take her off the road and investigate.

I have started at the top.
Rocker cover and belt covers off. Timing checked and nothing looks out of place.
Belts off and Cams removed.

All lifters have risen and turn freely, valves ok or should I continue with the plan to remove the head?

Next step I was planning is to drop the sump to check the shells/journals.
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I would inspect the lobes on the cams. I would take off the lifters and check all the valves have indeed shut. I would be tempted to drop the sump to inspect the big ends as although replacing them is a pain of a job (not so much the shells themselves, more the sump), it's reletively inexpensive (£43 a set plus a fiver for sealent) If you get to this stage and still haven't found a definite fault, I would then spend the money and change the lifters

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALFA-ROMEO-HYD...item20ad35f3e3

At this stage, with what you have said so far, I would leave the head in place.

edit: TBH, I would probably initially miss out the big end inspection. I say this as in my humble opinion the noise doesn't sound like bottom end. i say this with reservation as on the origional thread, people with far greater knowledge than me have said big ends, but to me, I have heard a big end failure, and this doesn't sound like it. It really sounds like a top end noise.

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Last edited by Mitch916; 13-12-09 at 13:44.
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As Mitch166 says have a look at the cam lobes, look very closely and you may see where the case hardening has worn away (particularly the inlets to no. 2 cylinder from the left). Sounds very much like a Citroen GS I had many years ago which had worn lobes. If you have the cams off you may as well do the hydraulic lifters and the variator. Big-ends would be much more of a hard knocking sound.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch166 View Post
I would inspect the lobes on the cams. I would take off the lifters and check all the valves have indeed shut.
What am I looking for on the lobes? Chips, markings?
How do you tell that the valves are fully shut from the top?

This is my first engine rebuild attempt so lots of learning.

thanks
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The lobes are case hardened so they look shiney, but this is only a thin layer. If it gets damaged, the metal underneath is very soft and wears very quickly. You should notice the wear if there is any, I mean it would really stand out.

When the cam lobe hits the follower, the inside of the follower pushes down on the end of the valve, compressing the spring and opening the valve. If the valve hits the piston, it bends and therefore cannot reclose. If this has happened, the valve stem will be lower and the spring still compressed. You wont see if the valve has only slightly bent though. 8 of mine only showed when I put them in a lathe.
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Mine sounded top endish and well i'm nearly back on the road after a full rebuild...
From my opinion i would wip the sump off and check the bigends is a free check...

the are images for what you are looking for on this thread...
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...t-70-m4-3.html
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(Post Link) post #7 of 47 Old 10-01-10 Thread Starter
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OK I finally got around to getting the sump off, i am already not looking forward to putting it back on.

I found these in the sump, an ideas?

Photo0227.jpg

Photo0228.jpg

but looking up the bores I found this in number 1

Photo0224.jpg

and this is the shell

Photo0226.jpg

So next stage head off, get a conrod and new set of shells.

strange but I am enjoying this and really happy i have found something.
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Forgive me, as i'm looking at this thread on a mobile but is that a bent conrod I see?
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The chances are the crank is going to need a grind at least. Mike
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I agree at minimum a crank grind and also a new conrod...
The real question is how it bent in the firstplace?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffa View Post
The real question is how it bent in the firstplace?
I think I can safely put that down to the small lake I drove through until it conked out.


I was hoping to avoid a grind of the crank and new shells and a conrod would do the job.
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Having said that after taking a closer look at the bearing and now knowing the history of the failed bearing might be worth like you say a new conrod and some shells and you might of gotten away with it...
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replacement conrod arrived this morning. I will start taking the head off tomorrow.
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where did you get your con rod from as i think i need one for my rebuild.
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Where is the best place to seperate the inlet side to lift the head? Having a quick look this morning I was thinking the rubbers just behind the fuel rail.

Rocker cover, coils, belts, cams already off.
So far i have disconnected the coolant hoses.
The exhaust was already off the manifold from dropping the sump.
Is the aircon unit attached to the head anywhere?
Looking for the easist route


Quote:
Originally Posted by addamski1980 View Post
where did you get your con rod from as i think i need one for my rebuild.
Autolusso, our friendly co-forumers. I hear you sometimes get sweets included with your part, i was not luck this time.
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Originally Posted by alexgee View Post
Autolusso, our friendly co-forumers. I hear you sometimes get sweets included with your part, i was not luck this time.
Sorry mate, it was Laurence that sent the conrod out this week so don't blame me

Next time you order something, just let me know and I will put in a double dose of sweets
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexgee View Post
Where is the best place to seperate the inlet side to lift the head? Having a quick look this morning I was thinking the rubbers just behind the fuel rail.
I did mine at the rubbers. Still means having to undo 2 tricky bolts though. One I had to lay on my back using 3 extensions on my ratchet with a swivel head on the end!! I got the sucker though!!

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/motor...w-project.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addamski1980 View Post
where did you get your con rod from as i think i need one for my rebuild.
Iv got a couple in my shed with the pistons still attached. Do you want one? drop me a pm on the 145 forum (more space on pms there)
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sounds like your doing amazingly well, I wouldn't buy new lifters myself, mine were siezed solid on a 2.0TS if you have a vice give them a good sharp clout on the flat of the vice (holding the lifter flat against your palm. The guts will come out, theyre really simple to reassemble, give them a good clean and put brand new oil in them, they will be free as a bird and good as new. I took a lot of time cleaning the head, having it skimmed lapping in the valves, grinding the back face of valves and weighing them ,exhaust ports all and removing all the crud. it goes like a rocket. I didn't bother with the balance belt either, ist just another thing to go wrong and you can notice a slight performane improvement
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I didn't bother with the balance belt either, ist just another thing to go wrong and you can notice a slight performane improvement
Good work mate. Do you notice any increased vibration without the balance belt?
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I dont thrash it within an inch of its life, theres no point the power starts to die off again, but no I cant tell the difference. What I would say is if your up for camblet change time get a pair of scissors and cut it out and try it for a 1000miles, if you can live with it dont bother with all the extra parts and labour expense. I know this sounds terribly old fashioned but cars managed for years without them.
Some people take the balance shafts out, if you leave them in they WILL NOT crash into anything, I cranked the engine over manually on the crank and turned them by hand at the sime time to check. Its been running like this for 2 years now.
From a performance point of view it is just instantly more willing as soon as you gun it, not noticiable from a start but definitely in gear. From a longevity point of view I think the car overall will be goosed before this has any affect. Ours has already done 105K and it is great
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Finally got around to taking the head off this morning.

Good news - No sign of valve damage. All sitting flush and no contact with the pistons.

Bad news - I think I have found where these (pic top left) came from the bore lining (pic top right), would a straight conrod allow the piston to reach this part of the bore?

probably caused by this (bottom left pic) rough markings on piston

So do I need a new piston?
I need new piston rings for a start as the bottom one with the spring has a bit missing.

And this is what the conrod looked like (bottom right pic)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzaspider View Post
sounds like your doing amazingly well, I wouldn't buy new lifters myself, mine were siezed solid on a 2.0TS if you have a vice give them a good sharp clout on the flat of the vice (holding the lifter flat against your palm. The guts will come out, theyre really simple to reassemble, give them a good clean and put brand new oil in them, they will be free as a bird and good as new. I took a lot of time cleaning the head, having it skimmed lapping in the valves, grinding the back face of valves and weighing them ,exhaust ports all and removing all the crud. it goes like a rocket. I didn't bother with the balance belt either, ist just another thing to go wrong and you can notice a slight performane improvement
by 'eck gary you must have been up late polishing your head

re balancer shafts - my old integrale (basically same engine layout) had the balancer shaft belt cut to get rid. no real noticable vibration increase but one less thing to go pop - the balancer belt would take teh cam belt out if it popped! the works rally cars had the shafts removed - but very expensive in comparison to just removing belt. they do rotate slightly but no big deal

PS you need to change your profile - as many alfas as me now!

marc
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if you look at the very first image of the bent rod you can see the chipped bore...
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Annoyed with myself. Finally got back to the garage to start piecing the engine back together.

First job was to connect the conrod to the piston. Got one of the cir-clips in after a little time but then managed to lose the other when it pinged out just as thought it was in.

I had a quick look where I thought it bounced off to but no joy. Guessing I should be able to pick up a cir-clip locally without having to relying on Alfa dealers.
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